Govenor Sarah Palin, Mormonism, Post-Mormonism, Politics

[_beastie]

EA - my computer says that file is corrupt. I found the main website, what were you linking on it?

[_MsJack]

I freely admit that I am far more emotionally biased in terms of politics than I am in terms of religion, so it's a bigger challenge to monitor those biases. That's another reason I try not to allow myself to engage in lengthy, detailed political threads. But I'm more interested in the part I bolded, the hiring of Kopp after inadequate background checks. The article you linked said nothing about that.

I realize the part with Wooten is murkier, and more "he said/she said". But the part about Kopp - that clearly reflects inadequate vetting. in my opinion, one of the biggest problems with the Bush administration is that they appointed people to positions they weren't qualified to handle. That reflects poorly on "executive experience". And now her excuse is "he didn't tell me"? Really? So her executive experience leads her to expect that people being interviewed for important position are going to freely offer information that may discourage the job offer? Really???? (although some sources say she knew but thought it was unsubstantiated, which also reflect inadequate checking)

I'm more concerned with whether or not the man in question was actually guilty of sexual harassment, and there is nothing to substantiate that he was. The article that you linked to said that the letter of reprimand was removed from the files on him because no subsequent sexual harassment complaints emerged, which seems pretty fair to me and explains why Palin missed it while screening him. Pretty minor complaint against her "executive experience," that she gave a chance to an otherwise capable man who was accused of something in his past, but never found guilty and had no further track record of it.

Larry Johnson is the person responsible for spreading the rather vicious rumors about a Michele Obama's "whitey tape" for those who didn't know. Great source there.

Oh please EA. If every blogger who ever perpetuated an unsubstantiated rumor is discredited, there are only like, 12 credible blogs on the web. Just do a search right now for "palin faked pregnancy" and enjoy all the liberal bloggers whose opinions will hereon and forevermore not count.

[_beastie]

I'm more concerned with whether or not the man in question was actually guilty of sexual harassment, and there is nothing to substantiate that he was. The article that you linked to said that the letter of reprimand was removed from the files on him because no subsequent sexual harassment complaints emerged, which seems pretty fair to me and explains why Palin missed it while screening him. Pretty minor complaint against her "executive experience," that she gave a chance to an otherwise capable man who was accused of something in his past, but never found guilty and had no further track record of it.

Jack,

The very fact that is subsequently caused such a brouhaha that he had to resign within weeks demonstrates why appointing him showed poor judgment. Like it or not, this is part of politics and being in the public eye, and it obviously matters in terms of public confidence.

Palin's replacement for Monegan, Chuck Kopp, was forced to resign just two weeks after he was appointed because of a sexual harassment complaint that had been filed against him when he was the chief of police in Kenai.
Palin, in a news conference announcing Kopp's resignation July 24, said she was unaware that the Kenai city council had reprimanded Kopp as a result of the complaint and would not discuss how her staff had vetted Kopp before naming him to replace Monegan three days after Monegan was fired.
Palin apologized for the chaos that the Monegan dismissal and the Kopp resignation had caused. "This has been a tumultuous week in the Department of Public Safety, and as your governor, I apologize," she said at the news conference.

Alaska Daily news

And in regards to whether or not he was guilty of the charges:

State Sen. Kim Elton said he would have expected a potential commissioner to be asked during the hiring process if there was anything embarrassing in their background.
Elton also said it was "misleading at the least" for Kopp to give Alaskans the impression he was cleared of the sexual harassment complaint. That's not the same as being removed as the woman's boss and given a letter of reprimand, Elton said.

More Alaska News

[_EAllusion]

Do I need to be more clear? Larry Johnson is/was a Clinton supporter who has been vehemently anti-Obama and lied repeatedly about being on the trail of the existence of a tape from Mrs. Obama she was allegedly railing against whitey in order to scare voters away from supporting Obama. He was personally responsible for fueling that rumor. This isn't the only problem with him, but it is representative of the level of credibility he has. It brings into context the nature of the opinion he is offering. Find better sources.

Beastie -

I can read the file just fine. It's a paper published in the Washington University Law Quarterly called Is it Science Yet? Intelligent Design Creationism and the Constitution.

[_richardMdBorn]

Hey Richard -

I've seen the Obama/Keyes debate. I watched back in 2004 because I'm entertained by Keyes - how do I put this delicately? - being totally nuts. I've seen clips since then. Would you care to share where Obama showed he didn't understand the Constitution? I'm blanking here, and this leads me to believe I or others might not agree with that at all. In short, it might be you who has the problem. Let me rephrase the question a little. Was his understanding in line with views commonly held by constitutional law professors, granting for the informality and impromptu nature of debate?

Hi EA,

I just tried without success to find the transcripts of the debates to check my memory. My recollection is that Obama stated that blacks did not have the right to vote prior to passage of the 15th Amendment. Article1, Section 2 states, “The House of Representatives shall be composed of members chosen every second year by the people of the several states, and the electors in each state shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the state legislature.”

The 15th Amendment supercedes this with respect to race by stating “Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.” Some freed blacks could vote in the North prior to this including those in Massachusetts. Note that Art. 1, Sec 2 leaves this to the states.

[_richardMdBorn]

Obama's Law Career

Richard,

I have no doubt that, given your political ideology, that you don't find much use for Obama's legal focus. This is why I said, earlier, that the spin that will ensue given Palin's lack of experience will necessitate focusing on "accomplishments" rather than experience, and that worthwhile accomplishments are in the eye of the beholder.

You still haven't told me what Palin's professional accomplishments were prior to her brief political career.

You were the one who asserted that Obama had a distinguished legal career. The information in the link does not substantiate this. I made no such claim with respect to Palin; thus, I find it strange that you have repeatedly asked me to substantiate an assertion I did not make.

[_beastie]

You were the one who asserted that Obama had a distinguished legal career. The information in the link does not substantiate this. I made no such claim with respect to Palin; thus, I find it strange that you have repeatedly asked me to substantiate an assertion I did not make.

beastie's earlier statement:

Beastie
Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:21 am
Each one has had successful careers (which distinguishes them from Bush, at least).

First, you were the one who seemed to believe that only pre-political careers could count towards success. By including Palin obviously I was not using that standard, because as far as I know, she had no successful pre-political career.

Second, success is in the eye of the beholder. I think that Obama's work for his law firm plus his respected stint as professor indicates success, as well as his success at Harvard. You, apparently, think a lawyer is only successful if he/she is a partner in a law firm. That's your standard, not mine.

[_moksha]

I imagine that while some Latter-day Saints won't like that she's a strong, independent working mom.

You just lost some credibility here, but otherwise, good points.

In Church today, the 5th Sunday meeting concensus was that she should be at home with her five month old daughter instead of being in politics.

[_moksha]

For all you smartie pants, you probably take some delight that Obama graduated at the top of his class and McCain at the bottom. Well let me tell you, that if McCain had not learned those goofing off skills, he probably would not have survived the Hanoi Hilton. So there.

Now watch yourselves, for when McCain gets elected he may turn his anger towards you and who knows who else. Anyway, just hope that his doctors can adequately sedate him.

Anyway, how about that Palin? I imagine that Dick Cheney is musing that two boobs are better than the one we now how in the White House.

[_MsJack]

The very fact that is subsequently caused such a brouhaha that he had to resign within weeks demonstrates why appointing him showed poor judgment.

No, it shows that the media is capable of generating a damaging brouhaha where sexual charges are concerned, even if the charges turn out to be completely baseless and false. Remember the Duke lacrosse team?

And I don't think it should be that way. People who are accused of sex crimes but are innocent shouldn't have opportunities restricted to them just because the media can kick up mud about it. in my opinion, if Kopp was innocent he should not have bowed to media QQ, but he apparently chose to duck out of his own accord, and there could be reasons for that both good and bad. I still think this is a very paltry incident as scandals go, and the fact that people are unable to dig up any really good dirt on her only underscores for me what a great candidate she is.

Do I need to be more clear? Larry Johnson is/was a Clinton supporter who has been vehemently anti-Obama and lied repeatedly about being on the trail of the existence of a tape from Mrs. Obama she was allegedly railing against whitey in order to scare voters away from supporting Obama.

Thanks EA, I think we all know who Larry Johnson is. My point was that any blogger offering an opinion can be argued to have "context" problems. If we're going brush off the opinion of everyone who supported stupid theories at some point, the list of credible bloggers is going to be very, very short. That doesn't make his opinion on Palin worthless to cite. "Get better sources"? Do I really have to start listing all the pro-Clinton bloggers out there that are happy about the Sarah Palin pick? That's gonna be a long list...

Anyway, how about that Palin? I imagine that Dick Cheney is musing that two boobs are better than the one we now how in the White House.

It wasn't funny the first time you posted it. I guess you thought posting it again would fix that?