I will Believe the Book of Mormon as history when...

[_Daniel Peterson]

You're a good caricaturist, Chap.

Somebody who didn't know better might think you were writing seriously -- and that, in my view, is a key to really good irony.

[_JustMe]

Daniel Peterson

I googled "Scratch most substance ever," and it led me right there.

Now that's dang funny! Now tears are in my eyes!

[_JustMe]

Nightingale

I was getting confused in thinking that Mr. Scratch was attacking the church.

His ridiculous and stupid gossipy methodology against people (whatever their religion) has shamed him badly, and he ain't no gots the iq to even realize it. His substance in his views is dismally minimal. It is most frequently based at a person or people instead of ideas. I take absolutely nothing he says against anyone within the LDS church with any degree of seriousness. I do, however, enjoy watching Peterson man handle him more than I enjoy watching Bruce Willis's Die Hard series, which I think are some of the best entertainment in Hollywood. They pale in comparison to Peterson's mastery of dispatching this "scratchy" chump.

[_JustMe]

Joey

I've been asking for the past four years where this fermenting scholarship of Clark, Sorenson, and now I suppose Givens and Welch (although the list seems to grow daily on the fertile paper of FARMS), where these great works have convinced anyone to teach about the history, in a H-I-S-T-O-R-Y course, the city of Zarahemlah, the river of Sidon and the peoples/cultures of the Jaradites-Nephites-Lamanites-Mulekelites???

At BYU and BYU-Idaho, & BYU Hawaii. There's 3 places right there.

[_Gadianton]

No, I did not. I've been asking for the past four years where this fermenting scholarship of Clark, Sorenson, and now I suppose Givens and Welch (although the list seems to grow daily on the fertile paper of FARMS), where these great works have convinced anyone to teach about the history, in a H-I-S-T-O-R-Y course, the city of Zarahemlah, the river of Sidon and the peoples/cultures of the Jaradites-Nephites-Lamanites-Mulekelites???

Sounds like a frustrating battle, Joey. I would urge you to avoid reading my upcoming review of volume 1 of the FROB that should be up sometime tonight. At least one of the revelations may be too much to take.

[_silentkid]

Joey

I've been asking for the past four years where this fermenting scholarship of Clark, Sorenson, and now I suppose Givens and Welch (although the list seems to grow daily on the fertile paper of FARMS), where these great works have convinced anyone to teach about the history, in a H-I-S-T-O-R-Y course, the city of Zarahemlah, the river of Sidon and the peoples/cultures of the Jaradites-Nephites-Lamanites-Mulekelites???

At BYU and BYU-Idaho, & BYU Hawaii. There's 3 places right there.

Hi JustMe. I minored in history at BYU (meaning only that I took a few more history courses than the GE requirement) and not once, in any of my history classes, was any Book of Mormon name, place, or event discussed. As DCP stated above, they may be mentioned in an Anthropology course or two and most certainly are talked about in religion courses. BYU courses (with the exception of classes focusing on Mormonism in the Religion Department) are basically the same as courses taught at other universities across our great nation. Please don't devalue the education that I and many others recieved there by suggesting that Mormon ideas are taught across the spectrum; I have a difficult enough time trying to convince non-mormons and antis that BYU provides a solid, competitive education regardless of religious affiliation.

[_JustMe]

silent kid

I have a difficult enough time trying to convince non-mormons and antis that BYU provides a solid, competitive education regardless of religious affiliation.

I understand the sentiment entirely. I don't even waste my time with their sorry arguments anymore. Why try to convince walruses to sing opera? Why try to convince elephants to tap dance? Why try to covince anti's to even read the LDS research, let alone comprehend it. It is utterly beyond their abilities.

[_Sethbag]

It's not beyond our abilities. It's beyond our capacity for putting up with risible BS.

[_Joey]

Why try to convince walruses to sing opera? Why try to convince elephants to tap dance?

And why do Clark, Sorenson, FARMS et. al. try and convince anyone that the Book of Mormon ancient tribes of Israel existed in mesoamerica? Oh wait, that's right, outside of a few gullible folks in Provo, they haven't!!!!

I don't even waste my time with their sorry arguments anymore.

The same advice critical thinking expert Edward de Bono has been giving for years: "An expert is someone who has succeeded in making decisions and judgements simpler through knowing what to pay attention to and what to ignore. "

Peterson saw this four years ago when he admitted the FARMS works of Clark and Sorenson in this area are ignored by the academic community.

Yet he's still trying to get THAT walrus to sing and elephant (or perhaps tapir) to dance in some circus. FARMS under the "Big Top" perhaps!!!!

[_harmony]

Joey

I've been asking for the past four years where this fermenting scholarship of Clark, Sorenson, and now I suppose Givens and Welch (although the list seems to grow daily on the fertile paper of FARMS), where these great works have convinced anyone to teach about the history, in a H-I-S-T-O-R-Y course, the city of Zarahemlah, the river of Sidon and the peoples/cultures of the Jaradites-Nephites-Lamanites-Mulekelites???

At BYU and BYU-Idaho, & BYU Hawaii. There's 3 places right there.

No, you won't find any of those subjects taught as history on any BYU campus in the system.

Do you not understand the difference between the study of history (actual facts and events) and the study of myth (stories which may have contained a kernal of fact in the beginning but changed radically over time in an effort to explain the unexplainable)?

Please tell me you are not a product of the BYU system. If you are, I'm going to have more ammunition for my "do not use my tithing to support BYU" battle.