Journey of Faith DVDs

[_Sethbag]

beastie

This uncomfortable fact is the reason why LDS apologetics have developed theories such as the tapir theory.

This is such uninformed hyperbole one doesn't know where to even begin! Sheesh!

Well please decide on a point of departure, and have at it. I'm curious to know what you know, that Beastie doesn't, that supports the idea that people ought to know that there were horses in the Americas during the Book of Mormon timeline. So, what have you got?

[_beastie]

DCP, you are one of the experts who was featured in at least one of the sections I cited - the City of Nephi. You may have even been in the others, I just don't remember at this point since I didn't transcribe any of your words for this analysis when I wrote it up several months ago. You stated earlier:

that her assertion of glaringly obvious errors in the DVD might not play so well if she asserted it in a place where those who made the allegedly obvious errors (and who have solid training and substantial experience in Mesoamerican studies) were aware of it.

Your words were part of the case for one of the obvious errors. You're here. Why not defend it? If I'm so ill-informed, or so erroneous in my summary of the statements, it ought not to take much time to take care of.

[_beastie]

Well please decide on a point of departure, and have at it. I'm curious to know what you know, that Beastie doesn't, that supports the idea that people ought to know that there were horses in the Americas during the Book of Mormon timeline. So, what have you got?

I second Seth's request. What have you got, justme?

(silent countdown to regurgitation of "evidence" respected scholars have dismissed as hoaxes and frauds)

Out of curiosity, why do you think apologists have created the tapir theory in the first place?

[_JustMe]

beastie

I second Seth's request. What have you got, justme?

A better theory than your theory that the tapir situation is a theory

[_Trevor]

I want a FROB review of my posts. Only then will I go to my grave satisfied that I left my mark on the world.

[_JustMe]

I want a FROB review of my posts. Only then will I go to my grave satisfied that I left my mark on the world.

Well, um....... lemmee see what I can come up with, k?

[_Trevor]

Well, um....... lemmee see what I can come up with, k?

You are too kind.

[_harmony]

FROB? Only if she's feeling exceptionally masochistic.

My impression, which may be wrong, is that harmony is even less familiar with the FARMS Review than the Scartchmeister is.

Daniel, beastie... Trixie to me... posts here anonymously. There is a reason for that. Were she to submit to any of those publications, she would forfeit that, much as Shades and Truth Dancer both forfeited that. Her reasons for remaining anonymous are immaterial and have nothing to do with this discussion, nothing to do with her points. Expecting her to forfeit that protection is both unfeeling and dangerous.

Do you never think of posters as people? Do you really only see one- dimensionally?

Do the aforementioned MesoAmerican experts would read Sunstone and Dialogue? Those aren't MesoAmerican publications.

Latter-day Saint Mesoamericanists are Latter-day Saints as well as Mesoamericanists -- that's rather implied, I think, by the descriptor Latter-day Saint Mesoamericanists -- and they would soon be aware that they had come under attack in a periodical targeted to an LDS-interested readership.

Brant already knows Trixie and her work. He doesn't need to read Sunstone or Dialogue in order to know her points, and how he is thus far unable to refute them. I've never seen him be disrespectful to her, never seen him lose his cool and denigrate her, even though he knows at least some of her arguments are dimetrically opposed to his own.

It's difficult for me to believe that the gentleman apologist with the anthropology degree would allow deliberate misinformation to be published under his name, but I appear to be wrong again.

And wouldn't mainstream MesoAmerican experts benefit from reading her literature review and conclusions too?

Maybe. I doubt that they would be interested. But beastie is entirely welcome and free to make the attempt.

So... you think mainstream MesoAmerican experts would be uninterested, but LDS MesoAmericans experts would be?

But there ya go, Trix. Polish up the website to it reads like a dissertation, and submit to Sunstone or Dialogue.

That harmony thinks that Sunstone and Dialogue read like anthologies of dissertations leads me to suspect that she's unfamiliar with them, too.

Dang. Guess I'd better cancel my subscription. And pull my tongue out of my cheek before I do it.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Daniel, beastie... Trixie to me... posts here anonymously. There is a reason for that. Were she to submit to any of those publications, she would forfeit that, much as Shades and Truth Dancer both forfeited that. Her reasons for remaining anonymous are immaterial and have nothing to do with this discussion, nothing to do with her points. Expecting her to forfeit that protection is both unfeeling and dangerous.

I don't expect her to do anything. She could write an article and submit it to Sunstone or Dialogue or some other publication.

If she chooses not to do so, that's her right.

Do you never think of posters as people? Do you really only see one- dimensionally?

That's a rather weird response.

I simply suggested that she could write an article and submit it to Sunstone or Dialogue or some other publication. How that makes me cruel and unfeeling is, well, just a tad opaque.

Brant already knows Trixie and her work. He doesn't need to read Sunstone or Dialogue in order to know her points, and how he is thus far unable to refute them.

I'm not altogether certain that he sees the situation precisely as you do.

It's difficult for me to believe that the gentleman apologist with the anthropology degree would allow deliberate misinformation to be published under his name, but I appear to be wrong again.

Who are you talking about?

So... you think mainstream MesoAmerican experts would be uninterested, but LDS MesoAmericans experts would be?

Most non-Mormons don't seem to follow Mormon issues very closely. You might want to ask Pal Joey about this matter, though. It's his monomania. He thinks it demonstrates something.

[_harmony]

I don't expect her to do anything. She could write an article and submit it to Sunstone or Dialogue or some other publication.

If she chooses not to do so, that's her right.

You just got through saying her argument(s) are useless, because they aren't published (at least I think that's what you just said). I don't understand that. How does being published give them any more standing than the website gives them? All anyone has to do is print them out and Voila! They're published.

Do you never think of posters as people? Do you really only see one- dimensionally?

That's a rather weird response.

I simply suggested that she could write an article and submit it to Sunstone or Dialogue or some other publication. How that makes me cruel and unfeeling is, well, just a tad opaque.

It doesn't. I was off on a tangent.

How does submitting what is essentially on her website for publication going to make her argument any more or less valid? Why does it not have validity (or not), no matter where it's written? It's not like she doesn't take comments on it; she does.

Brant already knows Trixie and her work. He doesn't need to read Sunstone or Dialogue in order to know her points, and how he is thus far unable to refute them.

I'm not altogether certain that he sees the situation precisely as you do.

Well, you don't, but that's not saying he doesn't.

It's difficult for me to believe that the gentleman apologist with the anthropology degree would allow deliberate misinformation to be published under his name, but I appear to be wrong again.

Who are you talking about?

Brant. He knows the whole horse thing is ... well, what Trixie says it is.

So... you think mainstream MesoAmerican experts would be uninterested, but LDS MesoAmericans experts would be?

Most non-Mormons don't seem to follow Mormon issues very closely. You might want to ask Pal Joey about this matter, though. It's his monomania. He thinks it demonstrates something.

Joey's a bit too focused, but some people think I'm too unfocused, so I'm not sure what his whole point is.