BYU and the "Strategic" Use of Alcohol

[_Ray A]

Certain BYU LDS are willing to "compromise" when it comes to certain individuals. Credibility is something that can be bought, and plenty of academics are willing to sell it.

Scratch, that word "plenty" doesn't seem justified. It wouldn't seem impossible to me that one, or two, might have done this, not at all, but "plenty"?

[_bcspace]

I was curious what others may have heard about this. I have heard from a number of sources that when VIP non-LDS visit BYU, alcohol is sometimes served.

Well, the Book of Mormon example (Alma 55) is to get your enemies drunk before assaulting their strongholds...... ;)

[_Mister Scratch]

Certain BYU LDS are willing to "compromise" when it comes to certain individuals. Credibility is something that can be bought, and plenty of academics are willing to sell it.

Scratch, that word "plenty" doesn't seem justified. It wouldn't seem impossible to me that one, or two, might have done this, not at all, but "plenty"?

I'm sorry, Ray, but I can't agree with you here. Academics (as DCP will be glad to remind you) tend not to make a whole lot of money. So, when some politically- or ideologically- motivated party offers to kick you, say, $50,000 in order to write up a study favorable to its position, do you think you would automatically turn it down? Or, suppose you were an academic who knew that another academic had accepted $50,000 in order to support an ugly political position. Would you turn down, say, $25,000 offered to you in order to counter that position? Sure, sure: people might say that your work was "compromised" because you were "bought out," but if your work was sound, then does that criticism have any merit? Don't academics deserve to be rewarded for their work?

[_Daniel Peterson]

Well, the Book of Mormon example (Alma 55) is to get your enemies drunk before assaulting their strongholds...... ;)

I deny having played any role in keeping Scartch plastered for the past two years.

[_Ray A]

I'm sorry, Ray, but I can't agree with you here. Academics (as DCP will be glad to remind you) tend not to make a whole lot of money. So, when some politically- or ideologically- motivated party offers to kick you, say, $50,000 in order to write up a study favorable to its position, do you think you would automatically turn it down? Or, suppose you were an academic who knew that another academic had accepted $50,000 in order to support an ugly political position. Would you turn down, say, $25,000 offered to you in order to counter that position? Sure, sure: people might say that your work was "compromised" because you were "bought out," but if your work was sound, then does that criticism have any merit? Don't academics deserve to be rewarded for their work?

Let's get to the gist of this. You believe FARMS was "bought out" by the Church?

[_Mister Scratch]

I'm sorry, Ray, but I can't agree with you here. Academics (as DCP will be glad to remind you) tend not to make a whole lot of money. So, when some politically- or ideologically- motivated party offers to kick you, say, $50,000 in order to write up a study favorable to its position, do you think you would automatically turn it down? Or, suppose you were an academic who knew that another academic had accepted $50,000 in order to support an ugly political position. Would you turn down, say, $25,000 offered to you in order to counter that position? Sure, sure: people might say that your work was "compromised" because you were "bought out," but if your work was sound, then does that criticism have any merit? Don't academics deserve to be rewarded for their work?

Let's get to the gist of this. You believe FARMS was "bought out" by the Church?

Whoa.... I actually had not thought of that. However, I do think that would make a lot of sense, Ray. Well done, my old friend---well done.

And, no---that is not really what I had in mind. (At least not based on what I have heard.) Rather, I was under the admittedly skeptical impression that certain non-LDS scholars were "persuaded" to adopt positions favorable to certain LDS apologetic viewpoints.

[_Ray A]

Whoa.... I actually had not thought of that. However, I do think that would make a lot of sense, Ray. Well done, my old friend---well done.

And, no---that is not really what I had in mind. (At least not based on what I have heard.) Rather, I was under the admittedly skeptical impression that certain non-LDS scholars were "persuaded" to adopt positions favorable to certain LDS apologetic viewpoints.

Okay, I needed that clarification. Thus your connection with "serving alcohol" to non-LDS scholars, i.e, "bought out". Solid evidence would be needed for that, nor hearsay.

I don't believe FARMS was "bought out" in any case.

[_Sethbag]

I'm really shocked that in three pages here, nobody has mentioned the fact that Mitt Romney's parents kept alcohol in their home, to serve to guests. Mitt has also been quoted saying "I could serve alcohol in the White House."

But that's Mitt, and he doesn't come from, nor live in Utah. I can't really imagine anyone in any sort of official position at BYU doing that. The pharisaical bent runs deep in BYU. Note that they can't even have regular freaking Coke machines at BYU - it all has to be caffeine free. It surprised me mildly to read about the Romneys' more relaxed position toward alcohol use by non-LDS guests, but it would shock me to the core to discover that the BYU brass did the same. I just don't believe it.

by the way, I paid for alcohol for friends of mine before. When I was in Germany on an exchange trip in High School, and when I was back in German in 1998 for a trade show for the company I worked for, I paid for some drinks for the friends I was with, though I myself only drank soda during my High School trip, and non-alcholic beer during my 1998 trip. It actually did irk me when I had LDS friends get on my case for having done that, when it came up later.

ps: here is a link to a page that tells of the Romneys' keeping alcohol in the home for their guests. This is just one page saying that that I found just now to be able to link it. I'd already read this before other places as well. Here is a link with the "I could serve alcohol in the White House" quote.

[_Ray A]

Mitt has also been quoted saying "I could serve alcohol in the White House."

From the link:

The Mormon question loomed larger than any other over Romney's young campaign. As governor, he had demonstrated he was not interested in imposing the doctrines of his faith on the people of Massachusetts. (For example, he signed a law abolishing the state's centuries-old "blue laws," prohibiting the sale of alcohol on Sundays. "I could serve alcohol in the White House," he says.)

Indeed, White House attendees from the Caribbean could not be expected to sip on strawberry-flavoured sno-kones. Fernandes White Star rum would be more appropriate.

But that's Mitt, and he doesn't come from, nor live in Utah. I can't really imagine anyone in any sort of official position at BYU doing that. The pharisaical bent runs deep in BYU. Note that they can't even have regular freaking Coke machines at BYU - it all has to be caffeine free. It surprised me mildly to read about the Romneys' more relaxed position toward alcohol use by non-LDS guests, but it would shock me to the core to discover that the BYU brass did the same. I just don't believe it.

Neither do I.

by the way, I paid for alcohol for friends of mine before. When I was in Germany on an exchange trip in High School, and when I was back in German in 1998 for a trade show for the company I worked for, I paid for some drinks for the friends I was with, though I myself only drank soda during my High School trip, and non-alcholic beer during my 1998 trip. It actually did irk me when I had LDS friends get on my case for having done that, when it came up later.

A middle-finger gesture would have been appropriate, but since you were a "good boy" then....

[_Angus McAwesome]

Well, yes, basically. Certain BYU LDS are willing to "compromise" when it comes to certain individuals. Credibility is something that can be bought, and plenty of academics are willing to sell it.

Don't be a putz, Scratch. If being hospitable hosts is the best you can come up with for demonstrating how hypocritical and bad an organization is then you need to just give up.