I attended from '93 to 2000. I earned a BA and an MA. My education there was well regarded enough to get me into a PhD program in an Ivy. I chafed at some of the rules, but I will never regret having gone there. Met my spouse there. She has gone far on her two BYU degrees. I couldn't go back, but it is part of my history and I am grateful for it.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
harmony wrote:If one looks at the timeline of polygamy, what one sees is the total lack of revelation, once Joseph started his affair with Fanny. From then on, the heavens were as dry as the heavens are today. Nothing but men from then on. It's all tainted, once the Abomination was allowed to raise its evil head. The only way to fix it is for our leaders to acknowledge the mistake, humble themselves, and fix the canon. And it will never happen. At least not in my lifetime.
Is God not able to forgive indiscretions? Are you saying the Church inherited sin from these indiscretions?
harmony wrote:If one looks at the timeline of polygamy, what one sees is the total lack of revelation, once Joseph started his affair with Fanny. From then on, the heavens were as dry as the heavens are today. Nothing but men from then on. It's all tainted, once the Abomination was allowed to raise its evil head. The only way to fix it is for our leaders to acknowledge the mistake, humble themselves, and fix the canon. And it will never happen. At least not in my lifetime.
Is God not able to forgive indiscretions? Are you saying the Church inherited sin from these indiscretions?
I'm not sure the Abomination qualifies as an indiscretion.
I'm not saying the church inherited sin at all. I'm saying Joseph sinned, Brigham joined him, as did John Taylor and the rest of them up to Wilford Woodruff. I'm saying the leaders were corrupt from the time Joseph started his affair with Fanny. I'm not saying today's leaders are in and of themselves corrupt; I'm saying they allow the corruption to continue and perpetuate a grevious sin upon the members in the process. The canon is corrupt. The lack of forthright honesty on the part of our leaders is ingrained so deeply, I'm not sure they could change if God himself appeared in their meeting room and threw them literally into the bellies of assorted whales. They refuse to confront the evil that Joseph, refuse to cleanse the canon, refuse to expose the Abomination as what it is. And because of that, they continue in a long line of other seeing through a glass darkly men who could have made this church into what it was originally intended to be.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
Well, I don't totally love Jason Bourne, but I will say I agree with him here. That was a totally unnecessary thing for collegeterrace to say. But then most of what he says anyway is totally unnecessary....;)
You don't totally love little ole me? Now I really am crushed.
Well, I don't totally love Jason Bourne, but I will say I agree with him here. That was a totally unnecessary thing for collegeterrace to say. But then most of what he says anyway is totally unnecessary....;)
You don't totally love little ole me? Now I really am crushed.
harmony wrote:I'm not saying the church inherited sin at all. I'm saying Joseph sinned, Brigham joined him, as did John Taylor and the rest of them up to Wilford Woodruff. I'm saying the leaders were corrupt from the time Joseph started his affair with Fanny. I'm not saying today's leaders are in and of themselves corrupt; I'm saying they allow the corruption to continue and perpetuate a grevious sin upon the members in the process. The canon is corrupt. The lack of forthright honesty on the part of our leaders is ingrained so deeply, I'm not sure they could change if God himself appeared in their meeting room and threw them literally into the bellies of assorted whales. They refuse to confront the evil that Joseph, refuse to cleanse the canon, refuse to expose the Abomination as what it is. And because of that, they continue in a long line of other seeing through a glass darkly men who could have made this church into what it was originally intended to be.
That is quite a powerful statement. How do you cope with this thought when you go to Church?
Remember also that Henry Jacobs was not only separated from his wife Zina through Brigham Young 'marrying' her, but Henry was also unfortunately separated from his two sons as well.
Henry returned from his mission and settled in California. But he was still in love with Zina, now a plural wife of Brigham Young. His letters to her were frequently heartrending. On 2 September 1852 he wrote: "O how happy I should be if I only could see you and the little children, bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh." "I am unhappy," Henry lamented, "there is no peace for poor me, my pleasure is you, my comfort has vanished....O Zina, can I ever, will I ever get you again, answer the question please." In an undated valentine he added: "Zina my mind never will change from Worlds without Ends, no never, the same affection is there and never can be moved. I do not murmur nor complain of the handlings of God no verily, no but I feel alone and no one to speak to, to call my own. I feel like a lamb without a mother, I do not blame any person or persons, no--May the Lord our Father bless Brother Brigham and all purtains unto him forever. tell him for me I have no feelings against him nor never had, all is right according to the Law of the Celestial Kingdom of our God Joseph." pg 44-45, Mormon Polygamy, Richard S. Van Wagoner
Remember also that Henry Jacobs was not only separated from his wife Zina through Brigham Young 'marrying' her, but Henry was also unfortunately separated from his two sons as well.
Henry returned from his mission and settled in California. But he was still in love with Zina, now a plural wife of Brigham Young. His letters to her were frequently heartrending. On 2 September 1852 he wrote: "O how happy I should be if I only could see you and the little children, bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh." "I am unhappy," Henry lamented, "there is no peace for poor me, my pleasure is you, my comfort has vanished....O Zina, can I ever, will I ever get you again, answer the question please." In an undated valentine he added: "Zina my mind never will change from Worlds without Ends, no never, the same affection is there and never can be moved. I do not murmur nor complain of the handlings of God no verily, no but I feel alone and no one to speak to, to call my own. I feel like a lamb without a mother, I do not blame any person or persons, no--May the Lord our Father bless Brother Brigham and all purtains unto him forever. tell him for me I have no feelings against him nor never had, all is right according to the Law of the Celestial Kingdom of our God Joseph." pg 44-45, Mormon Polygamy, Richard S. Van Wagoner
Support from another jack Mormon is very predictable...
JustMe the Mormon hypocrite wrote:Jersey Girl
Suitable for framing:
Jason Bourne said
Oh and by the way since I am not sure where this personal attack out of left field came, kiss off jerk.
Jersey Girl
I totally love Jason Bourne. :-)
Well, I don't totally love Jason Bourne, but I will say I agree with him here. That was a totally unnecessary thing for collegeterrace to say. But then most of what he says anyway is totally unnecessary....;)
Jason will run Brigham Young through the mud here in these boards, yet SUPPORTS the legacy of that man by promoting and patronizing the school named after him.
I guess Jason does not know how to stand for something....
... our church isn't true, but we have to keep up appearances so we don't get shunned by our friends and family, fired from our jobs, kicked out of our homes, ... Please don't tell on me. ~maklelan
collegeterrace wrote:Jason will run Brigham Young through the mud here in these boards, yet SUPPORTS the legacy of that man by promoting and patronizing the school named after him.
I guess Jason does not know how to stand for something....
Just because he does not think in black and white terms and is able to distinguish between a historical figure and the university named after him, does not mean he is without convictions. He has always presented himself here with integrity.