Apologetics: Why bother?

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Joey
_Emeritus
Posts: 717
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:34 am

Re: Apologetics: Why bother?

Post by _Joey »

Buckeye wrote:All they can do is publish. It is up to the world to read. So far, most of the world has taken little interest


There is no question that these supposed works of scholarship on Book of Mormon historicity have generated no interest from the professional and academic community. Peterson readily admitted this back in 2004

The obvious question is really "why"?

There are only two possible answers: 1. Awareness (exposure and/or visibility). 2. Quality of scholarship (or lack thereof).

[Some like Peterson, looking for every angle of escape, would like to argue that no one else has the required skill set to evaluate such works.As if either the Book of Mormon was a complex read on either theology or history.Or that no qualified mesoamerican experts had undertook an examination. Michael Coe made that argument void of any commen sense years ago.]

So going back to 1 and 2 above, what is it? If it is quality scholarship, why not pursue publishing it in venues of academic and peer acceptance such as the plethora of professional archealogy publications that would readily eliminate the exposure problem? Obviously such works have gotten zero interest from the folks outside of FARMS, so put the confidence in such "scholarship" to the peer and academic community.

If such works have been submitted to such exposure and there remains zero interest, then what does it say about the quality (or lack thereof) of such supposed scholarship? I think the reality is that the boys at FARMS don't really want to deal with having it exposed outside of Farms.

Under exposed or lack of scholarship. One can be solved very qickly. One cannot. Publishing it in a Farms only venue was a very calculated decision: Low risk, high return for firesides!
"It's not so much that FARMS scholarship in the area Book of Mormon historicity is "rejected' by the secular academic community as it is they are "ignored". [Daniel Peterson, May, 2004]
_Ray A

Re: Apologetics: Why bother?

Post by _Ray A »

Buckeye wrote:I take this view because I have seen it work in my profession. I'm an attorney by trade. While both sides in a lawsuit are telling their subjective stories, the process is fairly good at arriving at the "truth" because each side polices the facts of the other side.



Buck, you really have me wondering what the outcome of the process would be if, hypothetically, a jury was to listen to two Mesoamerican scholars present the case against an Ancient American setting as outlined in the Book of Mormon, and two historicity apologists were to present the case for an ancient American setting for the Book of Mormon?

Do you think the latter would really stand a chance? If so, how would this alter the idea of faith? If it was that obvious, would Moroni 10:4-5 become redundant? Or, perhaps, on an equal level as the "obvious" evidences which any jury should be able to see, as presented by the apologists?
_JustMe
_Emeritus
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:37 am

Re: Apologetics: Why bother?

Post by _JustMe »

Joey
There is no question that these supposed works of scholarship on Book of Mormon historicity have generated no interest from the professional and academic community.


This is false.
_Jersey Girl
_Emeritus
Posts: 34407
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am

Re: Apologetics: Why bother?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Schmo?

Somehow or another my reply to you for this thread got posted as a new topic. Sorry about that!

Jersey Girl
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Joey
_Emeritus
Posts: 717
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:34 am

Re: Apologetics: Why bother?

Post by _Joey »

JustMe wrote:
Joey
There is no question that these supposed works of scholarship on Book of Mormon historicity have generated no interest from the professional and academic community.


This is false.


Until you and your master (Peterson) can provide evidence otherwise, I thinks it's safe to just pet you and say "good dog"! Here, take this milkbone!!!
"It's not so much that FARMS scholarship in the area Book of Mormon historicity is "rejected' by the secular academic community as it is they are "ignored". [Daniel Peterson, May, 2004]
_Jersey Girl
_Emeritus
Posts: 34407
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am

Re: Apologetics: Why bother?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Joey
Until you and your master (Peterson) can provide evidence otherwise, I thinks it's safe to just pet you and say "good dog"! Here, take this milkbone!!!



Huh? What's that about?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Daniel Peterson
_Emeritus
Posts: 7173
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:56 pm

Re: Apologetics: Why bother?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Pal Joey's posts aren't about anything. There's nothing of substance in them.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
_Joey
_Emeritus
Posts: 717
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:34 am

Re: Apologetics: Why bother?

Post by _Joey »

Daniel Peterson wrote:Pal Joey's posts aren't about anything. There's nothing of substance in them.


Well ok Peterson. Lets ask you the question your pet poodle avoided.

Why is it that the works of Clark and Sorenson (and perhaps all other LDS authors) on the works of Book of Mormon historicity continue to get no attention and have convinced no one (ie, they continue to be ignored)? And fyi, we are not in the context of 18th and 19th century information dissemination and exposure anymore.

Is it lack of exposure?

Is it lack of scholarship?

If it is neither of the above, show us who they have convinced and where, outside of the isolation of FARMS, we find these specific works getting any air time? Specifics please. You've already admitted they are ignored!

Or, if it's easier, try and get me banned here!

(But please, don't open the gates to the kennel!!.)
"It's not so much that FARMS scholarship in the area Book of Mormon historicity is "rejected' by the secular academic community as it is they are "ignored". [Daniel Peterson, May, 2004]
_Jersey Girl
_Emeritus
Posts: 34407
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am

Re: Apologetics: Why bother?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Is it lack of exposure?

Is it lack of scholarship?

If it is neither of the above, show us who they have convinced and where, outside of the isolation of FARMS, we find these specific works getting any air time? Specifics please. You've already admitted they are ignored!


I don't know why I'm doing this. Half of the questions I've asked on this thread have gone ignored. Last try.

What academic journals do you think such works could be submitted to?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Daniel Peterson
_Emeritus
Posts: 7173
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:56 pm

Re: Apologetics: Why bother?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

Joey wrote:Why is it that the works of Clark and Sorenson (and perhaps all other LDS authors) on the works of Book of Mormon historicity continue to get no attention and have convinced no one (ie, they continue to be ignored)?

Why were the works of Wordsworth, Semmelweis, Austen, Mendel, Shelley, Tolstoy, Greene, Borges, Van Gogh, Wegener, Bach, and so many others ignored?

Joey wrote:And fyi, we are not in the context of 18th and 19th century information dissemination and exposure anymore.

The Cambridge University Library knew what it was rejecting when it declined to include the works of Wordsworth and Austen and Shelley in its collection.

And Borges and Wegener and Greene and Tolstoy and many others were in the twentieth century.

Joey wrote:Is it lack of exposure?

I doubt that many Mesoamericanists follow Mormon scholarship very closely. If you have evidence to the contrary, I would be interested in seeing it.

But it's also because Mormon scholarship hasn't produced, and hasn't claimed to have produced, a slam-dunk case that would force a skeptical unbeliever to bend the knee. Which, however, doesn't mean that the scholarship is without merit.

(You should perhaps read some of it, in order to get an idea of what I'm talking about.)

Joey wrote:Is it lack of scholarship?

In my judgment, no, it is not.

Joey wrote:Or, if it's easier, try and get me banned here!

????

Joey wrote:Unmaster, good dog!!!, say here and procan youyour ersontil evivide petother dence wise, I thinks it's safe to just pet you and take this milkbone!!!

At last you're making some sense!
Post Reply