Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

[_JustMe]

moksha

I have seen mention of the weight of the plates as being 240 lbs. based on the dimensions and the heaviness of gold.

I have seen mention ofJoseph Smith being an alien, based on his accomplishments, which are far too numerous for an ordinary human to achieve. So what?

[_JustMe]

antishock

and grab a 30 lbs kettle bell, and try to jog 1/4 of a mile with it. Now juxtapose that experience against Mr. Smith's dashing story of daring-do. The reality check definitely puts Mr. Smith's "golden" plates story into perspective.

Your assumption that Joseph was as big a woosie as you are is most telling.

[_collegeterrace]

Here's a nice medical study of two-mile runs carrying a 30kg (i.e., 66 pound) backpack:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... i_n8897301

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10834253

Oh come on! Is this all Google gave you? Think about it Professor, the backpack is fastened to the person by straps. Did you overlook the fact that the weight is evenly distributed over their back???

Have you ever picked up a 20 lb bag of lead buckshot? Used back in the pre stainless steel buckshot days of reloading your own shotgun shells. It looks easy given the size of the small bag. But the weight is so concentrated into small dimensions it is tough not only to pickup, but to keep your hands on it so it does not fall.

Imagine a 60-100 lb weight in the size described by Smith, with sharp corners --and running with this IN HIS HANDS. Right. Not happening.

Tell ya what, at the next Fair conference, why not do a reenactment of this feat? Get that one suckup teenage apologist to run the replica of plates. Have dingle dork Shirts video tape it and put it up on youtube. I look forward to the loud laughter from myself watching you all make fools of yourselves.

The most common estimates of the weight of the plates put them at about 60 pounds, concentrated very densely into an extremely compact area.

Has anyone see the replica made from lead that the Tanners have on display at their store in SLC?

[_moksha]

I have seen mention ofJoseph Smith being an alien, based on his accomplishments, which are far too numerous for an ordinary human to achieve. So what?

In all your tremendous list of books read, have you ever come across mention of an X-file on Joseph Smith? This is indeed a new item of speculation. Did you know that on the planet Denobula, each man has multiple wives and they in turn have multiple husbands.

[_collegeterrace]

So, in a manner of speaking, the fact that Hale didn't think well of Joseph at least demonstrates that Hale didn't believe that the plates existed, and this was one stumblingblock Joseph could easily have remedied by showing Hale the plates. Why didn't he? I guess the excuse is "cuz God didn't want Hale to see the plates". I believe Joseph didn't show Hale because he didn't have any the plates to show.

Yep, that and the stone box.

Why didn't folks back then ask to see the stone box? Nothing to steal, nothing of value, nothing to hide. Heck Smith could have fashioned such a stone box to appease the curious...

Goddamned stone box never existed.

[_marg]

So, in a manner of speaking, the fact that Hale didn't think well of Joseph at least demonstrates that Hale didn't believe that the plates existed, and this was one stumblingblock Joseph could easily have remedied by showing Hale the plates. Why didn't he? I guess the excuse is "cuz God didn't want Hale to see the plates". I believe Joseph didn't show Hale because he didn't have any the plates to show.

Yep, that and the stone box.

Why didn't folks back then ask to see the stone box? Nothing to steal, nothing of value, nothing to hide. Heck Smith could have fashioned such a stone box to appease the curious...

Goddamned stone box never existed.

The people back then like Isaac Hale didn't take it, Smith and his claims seriously. How could they have foreseen that Smith's con would turn into a billion dollar industry, that people would actually believe it all.

[_gramps]

Speaking of the plates, DCP I think has his own replicas or access to replicas. I'm thinking of the Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit that went through Germany. A replica of the gold plates was part of that exhibit.

Did you have something to do with that exhibit, DCP?

[_Pokatator]

I have built a lot of brick work and rock walls in my day. The average cinder block 8 x 8 x 16 is about 26 pounds, retaining wall bricks are about 18 pounds. Lead bricks are about 2 x 3 x 7 and weigh 27 pounds. These examples are roughly half of the lightest estimates of the gold plates. I would like to see anyone carry just one of these options even just walking for a mile. Yes, it can be done but I am positive you will have a different perspective of the idea that someone can run and jump logs being chased for a mile. Putting it in a backpack would help considerably but that is not the way Joe supposedly carried it. You will be surprised how many times you will shift the load into different positions and how many times you will want to set it down to take a break.... and that's just walking with it.

I don't know how long it would take DCP to walk a mile but I would be willing to sit through a boringly long YouTube to watch him do it.

[_antishock8]

antishock

and grab a 30 lbs kettle bell, and try to jog 1/4 of a mile with it. Now juxtapose that experience against Mr. Smith's dashing story of daring-do. The reality check definitely puts Mr. Smith's "golden" plates story into perspective.

Your assumption that Joseph was as big a woosie as you are is most telling.

For such a well-read man you certainly have a penchant for spelling and grammar errors. You like that? You like that ad hominem? Because there's more of that for ya if you keep it up, Brother craps.

That being said, I routinely incorporate kettle bells into my workout routine. The 30 lbs weight was actually for someone like yourself, an average person (no insult meant with that one), just to get an idea of the notion of weight, movement, and endurance.

Now. Increase that weight to a charitable 45 lbs, since Internet Mormons want to believe the plates were tumbaga. I work with people who are extremely fit, and not ONE would be able to run with a 45 lbs plate, jump over logs, fend attackers off, and run through uneven terrain for a mile.

That story was a lie. Period. That, again, should put into perspective, the entire story that the plates even existed. Period! Please... Give it some thought.

[_antishock8]

Reference the "backpack links". Sheer genius that one was. The first link simply stated someone's intent "To develop a weight and age handicap model for Two-Mile Run Test." No indication of a backpack/rucksack was mentioned. You had to go to the links on the right-hand side and click on the second link posted which stated:

Using actual unloaded (no backpack) 2-mile-run test data from 59 male service academy cadets...

All that aside, Mr. Smith didn't have a backpack. Sorry. No mention of it. Secondly, has anyone ever put a big piece of metal in a backpack and then attempted to run around with it?

Well I have. And it sucks. I took a 25 lbs weight, wrapped it in two pillows, stuffed it in a rucksack, and did my thing. The most "running" you do under that circumstance is a sort of walk-jog thing. Your freaking rucksack, even though it's secured to your body around your shoulders, across your chest, and around your waist bounces up and down and that damn weight slips out of its pillow encasings and... Oh... It HURTS like a MOTHER to have metal pinging away against your spine and back.

There's no jumping. There's no sprinting. There's no fending anyone off. And that's with a damned rucksack. At a sum total weight of probably 30-32 lbs.

Mr. Smith's story was a lie. Period.