The Mormon Gulag

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
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_Yoda

Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _Yoda »

bcspace wrote:I dunno. Sounds like a "stand up" organization to me. So you got sent to boot camp. So what?

lol


I"ve already commented on your ass-ism in a previous post, but let me add that there is a vast difference between a "boot camp" situation, and an institution for children where physical and sexual abuse are rampant.

I'm only in favor of a "boot camp" situation if the teen-ager is completely out of hand at home, and, by out of hand, I mean, criminally dangerous, and a danger to other siblings in the home.

NO CHILD deserves to be abused!!! PERIOD!!! It is the gravest sin against humanity, and against God.

Take a gander at your scriptures, BC. Begin with Mark 10, starting in verse 13:
13 ¶ And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.
14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.


Bold emphasis mine.

I think you have some repenting to do.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _Jersey Girl »

More food for thought for GoodK.

I don't know about Utah, but in mine and other states, social services and health departments are tasked with unannounced inspections of such a facility and the receipt of abuse/neglect reports. They are held to the same standards as any other facility such as a public school district.

You might try to contact social services as a prospective parent, to see what violations/reports have been filed against the facility. Those should be a matter of publicly accessible record.

What I'm essentially saying is that you need to do far more to build this case than what I see on your website thus far. In addition to personal accounts, you need documentation that supports and reflects those allegations of abuse/neglect. You need these from outside agencies such as social services, health department or any other related accreditation or overseer agency that you can get your hands on. You also need to know what the standards are before you can prove that the facility has violated any.

Try your state statues.

You need far more personal accounts than you have posted there. You need to prepare a format questionaire, personally interview those who have contributed personal accounts and follow up with their families and health care/psyche/teaching professionals whose accounts corroborate that of the youth.

(And you thought all I did was live to give you and others a hard time on a message board....;-)
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Jersey Girl
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Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _Jersey Girl »

FYI: harmony needs to weigh in on this thread.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_harmony
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Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _harmony »

Jersey Girl wrote:FYI: harmony needs to weigh in on this thread.


My contribution will likely be minimal. Professionally, this kind of unethical behavior would result in a loss of certification and license for any counselor or PhD associated with this facility. Even private facilities are subject to at least a dozen random inspections every year so it would be very difficult to fly under the radar or trade on a former reputation.

I have a boys' ranch type of facility less than 5 miles from my home, and a friend of mine is their bookkeeper. Another friend of mine is on their board of directors. They are not connected to any particular denomination, although they have a chapel on their grounds. The youth are mainstreamed in the school system on all grade levels (we even had them on our Little League teams back in the days when we were coaching). The house parents are also the counselors, and they sign a legal contract and can only work at the facility for a year. Most of the boys had no criminal record, but were often the victim of bad parenting, poor choices of friends, and living in a bad environment. Poor choices were met with some innovative disciplines (one 5th grader was kicked off the school bus for some infraction for a week. He and his house parent walked the 4 miles to the school every morning, and again home every night for the week. He didn't ever get kicked off the bus again.)

Another facility, run by the state under a military boot camp type of regimen, is about 20 miles from my home. They are very successful with that type of regimen (very structured, a lot of physical activity--marching, obstacle course, etc.--mandatory individual and group counseling, mandatory state-provided school classes). Their residents (they're co-ed) are court-ordered but the residents choose the facility rather than a juvenile detention center. The convictions are not for violent crimes. When the youth leave, they often gravitate to careers in the military, because they are so used to that kind of regimen.

Another boys ranch type of facility is a school and ranch combination. It's about 60 miles from me. They are a religious organization. The waiting list to get into that facility is very long. It's 30 miles from the nearest town and they have their own school, but it is definitely a well designed, well run facility. They have a full range of counselors and access to psychological treament if needed. A friend of mine taught music there for a year and was very impressed with the quality of their system. Any boy who does not want to participate (they even offer after school sports, something many of their residents have never had an opportunity to participate in prior to arriving at the facility) is not forced to stay; however, when they leave, they are put on a plane back to their parents, not just allowed to walk away.

I cannot imagine the state allowing a facility like GoodK describes to exist in my state. There are simply too many checks and balances for that to happen. Too many inspections by too many separate county and state agencies for abuse like this to be allowed to continue. We don't have the wide open spaces that Utah has, so maybe that's why we are able to keep closer track of these types of facilities (not that we don't hear stories in the media about similiar facilities, but not to the extreme GoodK discusses, nor over that long a period of time.)
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_bcspace
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Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _bcspace »

BC, you're an ass. Not that we didn't know that already, but you continue to demonstrate your ass-ness on this thread.

What I want to know is, how did GoodK rebuild his relationship with his mother and stepfather? What happened that made that possible? Because this boys ranch experience would seem like a deal breaker to me.


Just commenting on the OP. I went to the site [url]utahboysranch.org[/url]. Actually seems like a good place to send your wayward children if you are trying to compensate for failure in the home. Didn't get spanked enough early on GoodK? Seems like it. Doesn't seem like it's getting shut down any time soon either.

lol
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_harmony
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Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _harmony »

bcspace wrote:Just commenting on the OP. I went to the site [url]utahboysranch.org[/url]. Actually seems like a good place to send your wayward children if you are trying to compensate for failure in the home. Didn't get spanked enough early on GoodK? Seems like it. Doesn't seem like it's getting shut down any time soon either.

lol


Wayward is in the mind of the beholder. My children had their share of brushes with the law, brushes with immorality, brushes with stupidity. I didn't send them away. I don't understand parents who choose that path.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Yoda

Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _Yoda »

bcspace wrote:
BC, you're an ass. Not that we didn't know that already, but you continue to demonstrate your ass-ness on this thread.

What I want to know is, how did GoodK rebuild his relationship with his mother and stepfather? What happened that made that possible? Because this boys ranch experience would seem like a deal breaker to me.


Just commenting on the OP. I went to the site [url]utahboysranch.org[/url]. Actually seems like a good place to send your wayward children if you are trying to compensate for failure in the home. Didn't get spanked enough early on GoodK? Seems like it. Doesn't seem like it's getting shut down any time soon either.

lol


You need a good, swift kick in the nuts. Study the scripture I mentioned and repent. You are showing yourself to be a complete embarrassment to members here.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _Jersey Girl »

harmony
I cannot imagine the state allowing a facility like GoodK describes to exist in my state. There are simply too many checks and balances for that to happen. Too many inspections by too many separate county and state agencies for abuse like this to be allowed to continue.


My point exactly in the comments I offered above. These types facilities do not operate in isolation as some might imagine. Even the after school programs that you mentioned (YMCA for example) are regulated and inspected by more than one state/local agency such as state statutes for child care services under the heading of recreational programs, health department, social/human services and such and in this case, I suspect state and local agencies who oversee and regulate the operation of mental healthcare facilities not to mention board certification criteria.

This facility has got to be regulated and inspected out the wazoo from the top right on down to their kitchen.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Jersey Girl
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Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _Jersey Girl »

bcspace wrote:
BC, you're an ass. Not that we didn't know that already, but you continue to demonstrate your ass-ness on this thread.

What I want to know is, how did GoodK rebuild his relationship with his mother and stepfather? What happened that made that possible? Because this boys ranch experience would seem like a deal breaker to me.


Just commenting on the OP. I went to the site [url]utahboysranch.org[/url]. Actually seems like a good place to send your wayward children if you are trying to compensate for failure in the home. Didn't get spanked enough early on GoodK? Seems like it. Doesn't seem like it's getting shut down any time soon either.

lol


Weren't you told to shut the hell up?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

marg wrote:
Daniel Peterson wrote:I feel absolutely no obligation to defend this organization, of which I know nothing. It has nothing to do with me. I'm not "damaged" by it in any way.


I don't think you can assume at this point that this organization has nothing to do with Mormonism. The people working in it and running it are Mormons.

Butch Cassidy was a Mormon, too.

But Mormonism didn't make him rob trains.

marg wrote:They are forcing their religious beliefs onto the boys that go there.

If that's true, then, to that extent, they're violating the teachings of their faith.

marg wrote:The families that send their kids do so often because they think it is associated with their church.

And "associated" it may well be. Associated is a very vague word.

marg wrote:The teens that end up there may only be rebelling at home against the ludicrous teachings of the Mormon church being forced upon them.

Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know. Do you know?

Perhaps, in your ludicrous posts, you should refrain from speaking too confidently about things of which you know little or nothing.

Of course, that would probably reduce you to near-complete silence. (Which doesn't particularly strike me as a negative.)

marg wrote:The teens may very well be the sane ones rebelling against their parents who may be the ones who are psychologically impaired

Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know. Do you know?

marg wrote:as a result of their excessive adherence to the strict yet ridiculous rules and frankly "nutty" beliefs the church teaches.

Whatever the facts are determined to be, I won't be looking to your ridiculous and ignorant posts for the answer.
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