A Symbol for Mormons?

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_collegeterrace
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Re: A Symbol for Mormons?

Post by _collegeterrace »

Neo wrote:If Mormons are "Christian" like they claim to be, then why wouldn't they use the cross as their symbol as well?

The standard answers to that follows:
If Jesus was killed by a .45 caliber bullet to the head would you wear that around your neck?
We Mormons do not worship the dying suffering Christ, we worship the resurrected one! This is why we do not wear the symbol of the DEATH of Christ.


Problem with that is Xtians wear the crucifix as a reminder of what they fell Christ went through for them, not the cut and dried killing of Christ.
... our church isn't true, but we have to keep up appearances so we don't get shunned by our friends and family, fired from our jobs, kicked out of our homes, ... Please don't tell on me. ~maklelan
_Danna

Re: A Symbol for Mormons?

Post by _Danna »

bcspace wrote:
I note that although I have seen this in several different pictures of BY, it seems to be routinely removed from official COJCOLDS images


No that it would matter one way or the other, but doesn't that make it possible to have been added to the original for antiMormon propaganda purposes too?


I had thought of that, which is why I looked around. The third image is from the Tanner's site. They would not be silly enough to try photoshopping - also I respect their research in matters like this. They were the the only ones to suspect Mark Hoffman's stuff afterall; even though his forgeries supported their work.
_CaliforniaKid
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Re: A Symbol for Mormons?

Post by _CaliforniaKid »

If Mormons are "Christian" like they claim to be, then why wouldn't they use the cross as their symbol as well?


Ninetheenth century evangelicalism generally opposed use of the cross as a symbol. In this respect, Mormonism just followed the crowd. Then when the Mormons moved West to Utah and isolated themselves, the rest of evangelicalism changed its mind on the subject, whereas the Mormons did not.
_Mike Reed
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Re: A Symbol for Mormons?

Post by _Mike Reed »

CaliforniaKid wrote:
If Mormons are "Christian" like they claim to be, then why wouldn't they use the cross as their symbol as well?


Ninetheenth century evangelicalism generally opposed use of the cross as a symbol. In this respect, Mormonism just followed the crowd. Then when the Mormons moved West to Utah and isolated themselves, the rest of evangelicalism changed its mind on the subject, whereas the Mormons did not.


I know that this is the explanation that Richard Bushman, **Robert Rees, Terryl Givens, and Paul Anderson have given. But in all due respect to you (Californiakid) and these great scholars... this explanation is only half correct, I am afraid.

It is true that mainstream 19th Century American Protestants generally rejected the symbol of the cross on grounds that it was a symbol of popery (Historian Ryan K Smith has a good book on this). Puritans in particular avoided not only the cross, but also just about all other religious symbolic artistic expressions. They stripped their altars and minimized their ritual, thereby making their services quite plain. This void of ritualistic and symbolic expression was too much for some Protestant Americans… and so they turned elsewhere to fill it. In fact, many turned to Freemasonry and Folk-magic. Both of these undercurrent movements thrived largely in consequence to the over-sterilization of Protestant Christianity. While it is true that several converts had puritan roots, this observation should not be used to explain the 20-21st century Mormon aversion, because several of these same converts were also involved in freemasonry and folk-magic. Both freemasonry and folk-magic were very accepting of the symbol of the cross, despite the general protestant rejection of it.

The cross taboo was a late development in the LDS Church's history, first starting as an aversion at the grass roots level around the turn of the twentieth century, and then as official protocol from the Church presidency in the 1950s under the direction of David O. McKay.

Prior to this time several Saints had used and promoted the symbol of the cross. Not only was cross literary symbolism fairly popular among LDS, but the material depiction was common place in LDS funeral floral arrangements. I have also gathered dozens of additional examples of the cross being used by prominent Saints. Cross necklaces (and even a few rosaries) were worn by Several LDS women in the Church (including Brigham Young's polygamous wife Amelia Folsom Young), the official Church brand was a cross, crosses were sewn into quilts, divine manifestations of crosses were envisioned, crosses were drawn as notation symbols, and many Church buildings were constructed in cruciform designs. In 1916 the Church had even petitioned the SLC council to erect a cross monument on Ensign Peak, to honor of the pioneers and to make the statement to the world, "You see... we are Christian too!" Granted, the petition was eventually dropped due to several factors, including public protest that the monument's design was in violation of the separation of Church and State (since the location was public property), nevertheless the Church's proposal shows clearly that the no-cross protocol hadn't yet come to fruition.

Again, the official protocol wasn't born until the 1950s under the direction of President David O. McKay, and the reason that he gave was that wearing and displaying the cross was purely a "Catholic form of worship." So essentially, the protocol came about fundamentally because the Church's desire to disassociate themselves from the Catholic Church. This is the same reason why Protestants of the early 19th century avoided the use of the Cross, but the Mormon taboo actually came a century later.


Edit to add: **A few weeks ago Dr Rees accepted my invitation to join my Thesis committee.
Last edited by Hawkeye on Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: A Symbol for Mormons?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Whatever this comes from posted by Porter
If Jesus was killed by a .45 caliber bullet to the head would you wear that around your neck?


If the bullet was believed to be part of God's plan for mankind, yes of course Christian's would wear it around their neck.

We Mormons do not worship the dying suffering Christ, we worship the resurrected one! This is why we do not wear the symbol of the DEATH of Christ.


Total distortion of Christian belief with regards to the cross. Christian's wear the cross as a reminder of Christ's sacrifice and ATONEMENT for mankind.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_antishock8
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Seal of Melchizedek

Post by _antishock8 »

Image

^^ The San Diego temple. ^^

Isn't the Seal of Melchizedek a sort of unofficial symbol of Mo'ism?
You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left
_Mike Reed
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Re: A Symbol for Mormons?

Post by _Mike Reed »

Porter wrote:If Jesus was killed by a .45 caliber bullet to the head would you wear that around your neck?

Better yet... would you use it as a symbol in your temple ceremony? Did you forget the sign of the nail?

We Mormons do not worship the dying suffering Christ, we worship the resurrected one! This is why we do not wear the symbol of the DEATH of Christ.

This statement carries an insulting implication that Christians who do embrace the symbol of the Cross have somehow forgotten that Jesus is resurrected. Not to mention... you overlook the fact that the Saints commemorate the death of Christ every Sunday in sacrament meeting, and that LDS scripture is full of literary symbolism of the Cross.
_SatanWasSetUp
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Re: A Symbol for Mormons?

Post by _SatanWasSetUp »

The Angel Moroni with trumpet is the typical symbol of Mormonism.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley

"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
_moksha
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Re: A Symbol for Mormons?

Post by _moksha »

Neo wrote:If Mormons are "Christian" like they claim to be, then why wouldn't they use the cross as their symbol as well?


I think the aversion to the cross came about in the early twentieth century when Mormons wished to distance themselves from Christians, who were bad mouthing them. Unfortunately, a side effect of this is the failure of even theologically neutral observers to not recognize Mormons as Christian, because the Angel Moroni is the icon next to the Mormon name in the world religions text books, rather than the cross which everybody recognizes as the universal symbol of Christianity. Our own petulance has shot us in the foot, so to speak.
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_ludwigm
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Re: A Symbol for Mormons?

Post by _ludwigm »

I have read - anywhere, some time ago - about the official symbols (100+) usable on military gravestones. For Mormons, it is Moroni with trumpet.

Something very near to Christ, by the way.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
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