Temple Shock

[_harmony]

Does that make sense?

It makes good sense, yes. Because it happens all the time. People fake it when they don't have the same type of experience that they think other people have. What they don't realize is that it's quite likely those other people are faking it too. And it's all nicely covered up because no one will talk about it.

Parts of the endowment make some people upset/nervous/uncomfortable. The Initiatories is one. Veiling a woman's face is another. Personally, I love doing the initiatories and I hate veiling my face.

[_Jersey Girl]

And it's all nicely covered up because no one will talk about it.

Yes and that's where I see "holding the truth hostage", harm. You may disagree with that and I mean no offense to LDS however, those are my true thoughts.

It's just not okay.

[_Jason Bourne]

harm...I've been reading and thinking about all of this for well over 10 years now. What I see in people's descriptions/accounts is that yes, they can present an inaccurate picture of the state of their heart to the Bishop/SP and engage in LDS rites/rituals. Even when one is entirely devoted to their LDS faith and leaves the Temple with doubts/questions or what have you, they often feel compelled to present a less than accurate picture of what they felt/observed and essentially, fake it for their loved ones.

I know that not all LDS fail to find a sense of spiritual connectedness in the Temple however, the above scenarios do exist and do compell one to present a false picture of their inner selves to those who are dear and close to them.

Does that make sense?

Yes. As I noted above it is for many like the story of the emperors new clothes. You know that old fable I assume?

[_Jersey Girl]

Yes. As I noted above it is for many like the story of the emperors new clothes. You know that old fable I assume?

Excuse me, Mr. Damon, what makes you assume that i know something old?

Huh?
;-)

[_Pokatator]

Thanx for the great thread KA I have some of the same thoughts as you. I dug out my journal and here is what I wrote shortly after my first visit.

I am coming to the conclusion that the man behind the curtain is not God and something is really wrong. Today I was standing inline at veil in the temple after going through the first time. I began to think about what I had done to get there. I had be worthy; meaning an active attender of church, a full thither, no tobacco, no alcohol, and pass the Bishop’s test for recommendation, sustain the prophet, and on and on. Plus now at the temple I had to be washed and anointed, given a new name, new clothes and underwear, go through all these rituals of receiving the different priesthoods, the oaths, the tokens, the names, the swearing to keep secrets, the promise to commit suicide by shedding my own blood 3 different ways if I reveal the secrets. I also have to recite the other covenants like the Law of Consecration that pledges my body, my will, my life, my wealth, my everything to the church. I have to do all these things and several others that I have forgotten just to stand in line to meet the Mormon god. When I meet him I have to introduce myself to him and repeat the handshakes, the oaths, the tokens, the new names, and I have do it whispering in his ear with an embrace to keep it secret. I have to do all this or this god doesn’t know me.

The thought came to me, if it was really God behind the curtain he would know his child, his creation without a recommend, without being washed and anointed, without a new name, without new clothes and underwear, without making 3 blood oaths, without all the other hoops that you have to jump through. I wouldn’t have to introduce myself to God! If he was really God, he would even know who I am no matter what kind of sinner I am, even if I had the smell of tobacco or drink on my breath, even if I was a thief or a lair, he would know me no matter who or what I am or what station or condition in life I am.

A chill ran over me as I realized that all I did in the temple was in the name of the Son of God, and in this religion there are two Sons of God. Jesus and Satan, .......brothers. The question became who is behind the curtain, Jesus or Satan? Would Jesus whisper secrets, want me to make blood oaths, not know me, etc. and etc.?

The thoughts of how weird and bizarre this whole ritual was began to pour into my mind. It came to me that the Mormon god is not a powerful god at all or even a god at all. It is amazing to me just how weak and powerless the Mormon God is. He can't even keep track of his own creation he has to have the creation itself keep track for him and the created has the responsibility to save his own creation for him. You have to save your self, you have to save your dead (God can't do it?), the Mormon god is impotent. The Mormon god is not the Christian God that teaches differently, that he saves you, not by works, not by the temple, not by tithing, not by living the WofW, etc. etc., but by grace, a free unearned gift. The Christian God is a God that knows what and who he created and has a means for saving his own creation, he doesn't put that requirement on the backs of the mortals he created.

The Mormon god is omni-impotent!!!

[_Inconceivable]

..When I meet him I have to introduce myself to him and repeat the handshakes, the oaths, the tokens, the new names, and I have do it whispering in his ear with an embrace to keep it secret. I have to do all this or this god doesn’t know me.

!!

Pokatator,

Thankyou for the most descriptive and revealing reflections I've read in a very long time.

wow.

The thought came to me, if it was really God behind the curtain he would know his child, his creation without a recommend..

I see no valid argument against your entire post. This truly is the death nail in the coffin of Mormonism.

[_ludwigm]

Yes. As I noted above it is for many like the story of the emperors new clothes. You know that old fable I assume?

Excuse me, Mr. Damon, what makes you assume that i know something old?
Huh?
;-)

There are no old jokes only old people. Every joke is new for a newborn.

Ps. In hungarian this sounds better. We have different words for old1 (=not new) and old2 (=not young) (aged?).

[_Scottie]

You know, I just can't understand the need for ANY of the rituals that religions force us to go through in the name of God.

Like, God will really cast you out if you aren't baptised? Whether that it complete submersion or a sprinkling, does He really care??

[_cinepro]

So why the secrecy? Is it really necessary, even for folks about to enter the temple worthily? I do not think I was alone in my shock over receiving my endowments. Should not people have the option of knowing what oaths they're about to be asked to take before they're put on the spot in front of their family and friends in the temple? Temple preparation classes should be more thorough.

Or is there a fear that no one would go for the first time if they were to know what to expect?

Please keep comments Terrestrial Forum worthy. Many posters won't go to the Telestial Forum, having been sufficiently forewarned about the place.


KA

My experience was similar to yours. I went through a few days before my mission, and so I was subsequently subjected to weekly, early morning Temple visits for the duration of my stay at the MTC.

I kept assuming the experience would get better the more I tried, but it has never elevated itself above being equal parts weird, silly and boring.

I wonder how much of the secrecy has roots in the Masonic influences of the Temple, and the strict need to keep polygamy a secret in Nauvoo. I also suspect we conciously or unconsciously understand the damage that would happen to missionary efforts if the Temple ceremony became more well known. Mormons are good at keeping it sacret not because of their reverence for the ceremony, but for the simple fact that we really don't want anyone else to know about what goes on in there.

[_consiglieri]

Before going to the temple for the first time, I took Temple Preparation classes. Unfortunately, they prepared me very little for what would happen in the temple.



KA

Hi, Kimberly!

I can sympathize with you on a number of levels. First, as to your shock.

I converted to the Church fresh out of high school back in 1978 and went through the temple in Provo (Hi, Liz!) for my endowment after I was at the MTC.

I was apprehensive about the experience, because my friend, Bruce, who introduced me to the Church, had been a life-long member, got his endowment at the Idaho Falls Temple before me, and told me he was really freaked out about it. I had heard some things, and was expecting guys in dark hoods wielding daggers.

When nothing like that happened, how freaky could it be?

I think I wasn't shocked so much because I wasn't raised in the Church, which has an almost absolute dearth of symbolic ritual outside the temple. Even the parts that are symbolic are usually divested of their symbolic nature to a large degree. (The sacrament is more bread and water than flesh and blood.)

In the Church, everything is pretty straightforward.

In the Temple, nothing is straightforward; everything is symbolic, and that can be confusing for some Mormons, I think.

The tendency is to take the symbolism as being straightforward, to interpret it literally, and to think that you have to commit suicide if you reveal the endowment (which is not what it really said), or that the Danites will come and do the job for you (which is not what it really said).

The most interesting part for me the first time through was the washings and annointings. I received my own, and also did a bunch more for others who had passed on. I remember feeling a spirit during the washings and annointings. I wouldn't call it the Spirit of God or the Spirit of Satan (though I have experienced both). I was impressed that I was feeling the Spirit of Moses, though I know that sounds strange.

After having attended the temple many times, I began to see that the endowment ceremony itself is constructed in such a way as to constitute what I consider the crowning revelation of Joseph Smith.

Beyond that, I can't say any more. You know, the Danites and all that!

As to the temple preparation class, you are spot on that it does nothing to prepare somebody for the temple. I was excited to take the preparation classes, but disappointed to find out that it was really just the missionary discussions all over again.

I have had the opportunity to teach a few temple preparation classes in the intervening years, and I (heretically and with no authority) always include an additional lesson dealing with symbolism, with the specific goal in mind of actually preparing people for the overwhelming symbolism they will encounter in the temple.

On the whole, I think that Catholics would likely be better prepared for the endowment ceremony than most Mormons.

Anyway, I just wanted to share some thoughts with you.

I hope you are doing well.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri