Latest buffonery concerning SLC downtown development

[_Jason Bourne]

Jason,
I did not make up those numbers. They come from the Church website linked in an area intended to educate the media. It is highly improbable that; a) they would distinguish humanitarian effort by source of funds and, b) not seek credit for over 10 billion (using your number) over the same period, when they acknowledge 1 billion. It strains credulity

I know you did not make them up. But I kniow what type of aid they include in those numbers and it does not include FO. It cannot based on details of what makes up this particular number for. Go do the leg work on it and see. It is emergency type humanitarian aid for mostly non LDS. It does not include FO aid that mostly goes to members in need.

If it makes you feel any better, your $500 million a year based upon 25,000 wards has to be wildly off. Less than half of the church membership comes from within the US but accounts for over 90% of the Churches income according to the Time article. (Your book may very well say the same thing.) It’s preposterous to think wards in Africa, Mexico, South America and Asia are contributing anything remotely close to $20,000 a year in fast offerings. I doubt they even contribute that much in tithing.

Again the $20,000 a year is what is spent per ward not what comes in per ward. So you are misunderstanding the point. My point is that it is reasonable to assume that the Church spends $20,000 per ward per year in FO assistance. And a ward can spend this even if they only bring in $1 in FO contributions because other wards whose income exceeds the out flow make up the difference. If the overall FO funds for the church are to short tithing kicks in.

That said, the Fast Offering number may approach a $100 million a year and from appearances and what the Church has acknowledges, they appear to be keeping ½ of the collections.

You are simply wrong. THe humanitarian aid numbers are seprate and includede different things than FO takes care of. $500 million a year in FO is reasonable.

[_harmony]

Sorry Harmony, I am not buying it, but go ahead and think that is true if that comforts you.

Nothing about the way the church handles or discloses the money comforts me. But Fast Offerings are handled differently than humanitarian offerings. How long has it been since you saw the offering form? It's clearly a different catagory.

[_Jason Bourne]

.

No one implies you're making up the numbers. But remember how the fast offerings work? They're used to help needy members. Therefore, they're not the same as the humanitarian aid that is given to the needy outside the church.

Exactly.

The church doesn't want to broadcast the amount of money that is used to help the needy members. They only want to broadcast the amount that is used to help humanity itself.

Well LDS members are part of humanity.

They like to keep very quiet about the amount of money they use to help their own members. Kinda like they're ashamed to have to help so many of them. Back sliders, you know. An embarrassment the church would rather hide.

Oh come on. This is way to cynical even for you.

After all, LDS are supposed to be recipients of all of heaven's blessings, which, of course, translates to material goods.

According to whom? I doubt you will find the top leaders teaching this.

So really, there should be no poor among us, but some people just cannot seem to do what they're told, and so the church has to help. Not with tithing money though. Never with that. Tithing money is needed for building projects like the downtown mall. Important stuff. Because the poor aren't worthy of tithing being spent on them.

The poor are assisted from FO funds. If world wide there are not enough FO funds then tithing is used. My guess is FO funds are not enough to take care of world wide FO type assistance. But that is just a guess.

[_Jason Bourne]

Sorry Harmony, I am not buying it, but go ahead and think that is true if that comforts you

Again who cares? And what do you really know about it. Have you ever dealt with managing fast offering assistance. Have you met with LDS leaders and discussed it? No? I have. So I Trump you.

[_TAK]

Sorry Harmony, I am not buying it, but go ahead and think that is true if that comforts you

Again who cares? And what do you really know about it. Have you ever dealt with managing fast offering assistance. Have you met with LDS leaders and discussed it? No? I have. So I Trump you.

How clever of the church to disclose to the world to helping outsiders as you say but not its own people.. In the end all you have is your opinion and not shred of fact.

[_Jason Bourne]

How clever of the church to disclose to the world to helping outsiders as you say but not its own people.. In the end all you have is your opinion and not shred of fact.

I agree that full financial disclosure would be a wonderful thing. But in this case my opinion means more than yours for all the reasons given.

[_TAK]

How clever of the church to disclose to the world to helping outsiders as you say but not its own people.. In the end all you have is your opinion and not shred of fact.

I agree that full financial disclosure would be a wonderful thing. But in this case my opinion means more than yours for all the reasons given.

To you perhaps.
Edit to add.. I did not offer opinions - just what the Church has said. Its you that appears to be making sh*t up on the fly..

[_harmony]

.
Oh come on. This is way to cynical even for you.

If the shoe fits...

After all, LDS are supposed to be recipients of all of heaven's blessings, which, of course, translates to material goods.

According to whom? I doubt you will find the top leaders teaching this.[/quote]

And who listens to the top leaders? Other top leaders? The guy that ward members listen to is their bishop... and I've been sitting in the chapel when my bishop taught that paying tithing was linked to material success.

The poor are assisted from FO funds. If world wide there are not enough FO funds then tithing is used. My guess is FO funds are not enough to take care of world wide FO type assistance. But that is just a guess.

If there is not enough FO funds, are you sure tithing is used? It's more likely that the poor are told to access other sources... like local food banks and government welfare (which is what happens in my son's ward. It's a college ward and half the members are on some form of government support... WIC, Section 8 housing, food stamps).

[_Jason Bourne]

To you perhaps.
Edit to add.. I did not offer opinions - just what the Church has said. Its you that appears to be making sh*t up on the fly..

You know I have tried to be civil. I wonder why I am when dealing with imbeciles you have no ability to give the Church credit for much of anything,

I made up nothing. I made what I noted was a reasonable estimate. You did offer opinions and made faulty conclusions. I have shown that. Clearly since you stoop to insults now you have nothing left to say. Tah, tah

[_Jason Bourne]

If there is not enough FO funds, are you sure tithing is used? It's more likely that the poor are told to access other sources... like local food banks and government welfare (which is what happens in my son's ward. It's a college ward and half the members are on some form of government support... WIC, Section 8 housing, food stamps).

My ward has run an annual FO deficit for 20 years at least. My stake has run a FO defecit for a few years here and there. We are a typical stake. Some well to do wards and some not. If other stakes do not make up the short fall where does the money come from?

Oh and of course local resources are attempted to be used when they are available. This is common as well.