Harassment On Mormon Discussions.

[_Ray A]

Looking at some of the threads recently, and today as well, I've noticed that some females appear to have been harassed by male posters. This isn't new. Without revealing names, I've received PMs from several female posters over the last year or so, who at first casually mentioned what they felt was harassment. This bothered me, but I didn't take much further notice until I saw some exchanges on the board, and claims of real harassment, mainly in the form of sexual innuendo, or overt and unwanted "approaches" by some males. Now admittedly, this seems to occur on a fairly limited scale, thankfully, but shouldn't any such behaviour towards females be of concern? Beastie has left the board (and no, she isn't one of the females I discussed this with), but before she left, in one of her final posts she noted this as one of the reasons for leaving:

To be brutally frank, the bullying/borderline abusive behavior practiced by a few on this site – behind the scenes as well as in open posts – was probably the final straw for me. I was already getting bored with Mormonism as a primary topic, and the noise to signal ratio was tiring. If not for discovering additional troubling information about behind the scenes behavior, I may have just have dwindled away, reducing the number of posts I produce. But I really don’t have any interest in further association with people who have engaged in the behavior I have in mind (and no, I will not give details). Yes, that number of people is relatively small, but still enough to permanently affect my feelings about this board.

I'm not giving out any details either, but this should be of great concern not only to Admin, but to all posters, to maintain the integrity of Mormon Discussions. Others have also left the board partly or wholly in relation to this. I will leave you to guess who they are. No woman should be subjected to this sort of behaviour. It's not tolerated in society, and it shouldn't be tolerated on a discussion board either. What women wear, or what they say, should not be considered a "come on". Lewd or sexually suggestive language towards females on the board or through PMs seems rather inappropriate to me, and this is the essence of what I'm seeing. And for the record, I'm not talking about things clearly said in jest, nor Liz's Goddess Suite, which is meant in a spirit of fun. There is a line, and in some instances the line has been crossed. Beastie recognised this very clearly.

In case you're wondering, the reason I haven't taken this up privately with Shades is because this should be of concern, and open to comment, by the whole board, not something whispered in dark corners and eventually swept under the carpet. I realise I'm running the real risk of looking "PC", and will probably receive some negative feedback from some, but in the real world, harassment of any kind isn't tolerated. Women are also in a minority on this board, which makes such unwanted treatment totally uncalled for. Why would any other women want to post here when they observe this kind of behaviour?

You may not agree with me, and that's fine, but consider that we have lost beastie partly for the reasons she outlined above, and I think you'll agree that, like her or not, she was one of the key posters on this board and a significant draw card. She never intended to speak out about this, but came back for one last "blunt" clarification, as she phrased it, because of speculation as to why some were leaving. This isn't so much a free speech issue, it's a harassment issue, and I think you may agree that they aren't the same.

Now it's your turn to have a say.
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[_bcspace]

I'm not giving out any details either,

Then nothing will change. You have to indentify it.

[_Yoda]

I'm not giving out any details either, but this should be of great concern not only to Admin, but to all posters, to maintain the integrity of Mormon Discussions.

It is of great concern to me.

Ray, I know that you do not want to betray confidences, but since you brought this issue up publicly, I need at least a rough idea of specifics so that this can be addressed.

I hope that anyone who is being harassed would feel comfortable PM'ing either Shades, Scottie, or myself, so that this issue could be addressed.

And for the record, I'm not talking about things clearly said in jest, nor Liz's Goddess Suite, which is meant in a spirit of fun.

Whew! I would truly be disappointed if I couldn't continue to sexually harass you, Ray. ;)

[_Gadianton]

I had no idea Beastie left or any of this other stuff was going on. Certainly, it's no good. Well, I can't comment on things I know nothing about. I can't think of any posts I've read where there have been "advances" made. But I read a small number of posts now. If we're talking about out-of-the-blue PMs of explicit and harrassing nature, then I'd hope that kind of thing would be reported and dealt with by mods behind the scenes.

[_skippy the dead]

I hope that anyone who is being harassed would feel comfortable PM'ing either Shades, Scottie, or myself, so that this issue could be addressed.

Just out of curiosity, how would it be addressed, since this board does not ban nor censor? Seems to me that the only way to resolve it under the current environment is the way that it's being done now - the departure of various posters and participants.

[_Yoda]

I hope that anyone who is being harassed would feel comfortable PM'ing either Shades, Scottie, or myself, so that this issue could be addressed.

Just out of curiosity, how would it be addressed, since this board does not ban nor censor? Seems to me that the only way to resolve it under the current environment is the way that it's being done now - the departure of various posters and participants.

I need to know what type of harassment we're talking about before I can answer that question.

[_Gadianton]

I think it's obvious that if, say, we're talking about entirely unwelcome PMs that are very crude, threatening, explicit, and so on, that this is not covered under the free speech of the open forum. If that isn't reported, the Mods can't do anything about it. This would be the type of situation where banning would be appropriate. This would extend to other non-board related means of contact, like say, if a participant here found the phone number of another and began making harrassing phone calls, this is clearly ban worthy in my opinion.

Of course, on the other end of the spectrum, if the participants have been friends or shared personal information in the past, if they have each others emails, if things went wrong and "behind the scenes" begins to refer to harrassment between participants who have willingly either flirted, or extended their relationship beyond the board willingly and then stuff went south, not that those situations are "ok" but there is far less the mods could or should do here. I've seen this on Z and elsewhere and pretty much the only way it really can end is by actions from those involved themselves.

But, we have no idea where on this spectrum these problems are, so, there isn't much anyone can do?

[_rcrocket]

I wonder what the "behind the scenes" stuff Trixie was talking about. I'm sorry to see her go. She was a great foil. Foils are what keep me here.

[_collegeterrace]

Until I see the content of said harassment, I cannot comment.


Good is in the eye of the giver and evil in the eye of the receiver.

[_Ray A]

To help posters understand a bit more, I'm linking to a thread beastie did in April this year.

I have to say that I've noticed something that, so far, seems to be fairly unique to the LDS theme boards - men acting like horn-dogs and flirting suggestively with female posters, and/or just generally acting disrespectful. I'm sure some will think this means I'm a prude (which is far from the truth), but I think telling a woman she'd look good in a T-shirt is disrespectful. I mean, oddly enough, even on my divorce board men didn't act like some do around here. And it's been that way on every LDS theme board I've participated on so far. I have to say: WTF?

I didn't grow up LDS so I don't quite understand what it feels like to have your formative years so impacted by a sexually controlling ideology. So, despite the fact that I was LDS for over a decade, I likely to not fully understand the entire experience.

It's clear that her concerns go back a long way, but the "final straw" only recently went down the gurgler.