MAD Saturday's Warrior Thread

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_Analytics
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MAD Saturday's Warrior Thread

Post by _Analytics »

I admit it--I can be a a pompous ass from time to time. Judging from the anger and name calling that this thread generated and how everybody absolutely refused to respond to anything I actually said, and given that what I said had a lot of well-reasoned and fresh content yet was almost immediately shut down without moderator comment leaves me feeling that I hit it out of the park.

In response to the following, Lightbearer politicly said, "Please take your Anti-Mormon Neo-Communistic socialist/environmentalist propaganda elsewhere," and Selek said, "The bottom line is this: you're a liar, a demagogue, and a pious fraud attempting to promote a specific political/religious dogma and willing to distort and defame Mormon beliefs in order to advance your cause."

Here is what I said.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The premise of the play Saturday’s Warrior was that the temporal life of the earth extends about 6,000 years from the Fall of Adam to the second coming. According to Biblical chronology, Adam fell around 4000 B.C., which schedules the second coming to begin in the year 2000. If a day to God is a thousand years to us, then the Fall happened immediately after God’s post-creation day of rest which was, of course, a Sunday. With that calibration, the years 1000 to 2000 are Saturday, and the Millennium, when Jesus comes back to personally rule the earth for 1000 years, satisfyingly falls on a Sunday.

Ezra Taft Benson said the following, which might have been the single-most frequently general authority quote over my years in seminary:

For nearly six thousand years, God has held you in reserve to make your appearance in the final days before the Second Coming. Every previous gospel dispensation has drifted into apostasy, but ours will not. … God has saved for the final inning some of his strongest children, who will help bear off the kingdom triumphantly. And that is where you come in, for you are the generation that must be prepared to meet your God. … Make no mistake about it—you are a marked generation.


http://LDS.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnex ... &hideNav=1

That is the paradigm of Saturday’s Warrior. God was saving his very strongest children for the very last. LDS children in the late 20th century were the few, the strong, and the warriors who would win the battle raging in the hearts of men. They are the ones who wouldn’t bend with the wind or the change, but would fight the world alone in the minutes before Christ’s triumphant return.

From that perspective, the church’s (then) anti-birth control policy made perfect sense. There was no reason to worry about the balance of the earth’s ecosystem in a hundred years because long before that, Christ would return to personally lead the world through whatever those times would be like. But in preparation for His triumphant return, it was crucial for LDS families not to hesitate to bring his strongest children into the world—because after all, that was the generation that had been reserved for the final inning. It would be tragic to only field seven or eight players for the bottom half of the 9th.

Since then, people the world over have chosen to have fewer children, and the rate of growth has been decreasing. Various estimates show the population explosion slowing down and gently ending over the next several decades. While our civilization is in a mode where we are consuming resources faster than they naturally regenerate (e.g. carbon levels increasing in the atmosphere, over fishing, reliance on a finite amount of fossil fuel), and while there are going to be some tough transitions (e.g. impending retirement crisis) it is quite realistic to think that our children will rise to the task and get the world into a long-term prosperous equilibrium. So if anybody’s wondered, I am personally very optimistic about the prospects of humanity.

However, I get extremely frustrated when short-sighted and selfish people get on their high horses and moan about the challenges associated with declining growth. It’s as if they think the challenges associated with a slowing growth rate prove that the long-term solution for creating a prosperous earthly environment for the human family is unfettered exponential growth. That’s like a family that makes $3,000 a month but spends $4,000 a month using the comfort of that lifestyle and the pain of fixing it as proof that the best way to ensure a wonderful future for their family is to never balance the budget. What could be more selfish and short-sighted?

It’s time to put the Saturday’s Warrior mentality to bed. It’s time to look at the long term implications of our lifestyles and live in sustainable ways. We can’t base our lifestyles on an exponentially growing population and the consumption of finite resources and think that Jesus is going to soon appear to magically fix the long-term consequences.
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

-Yuval Noah Harari
_The Dude
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Re: MAD Saturday's Warrior Thread

Post by _The Dude »

That was a good post, Analytics. I saw it this morning and I hoped to participate in the thread later when I had more time, but now I see it was closed. Why? Because not a single person was able or willing to have a serious discussion?

I saw one person saying that it's the liberals' fault we have to keep growing, because a constant supply of young workers is needed to support the huge population of government supported retirees. So... I guess we're just going to keep having babies until the whole ponzi scheme explodes, with full awareness that that's where we are headed. My TBM father is a quite successful financial planner and he has the same ideas. It blows my mind.
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
_asbestosman
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Re: MAD Saturday's Warrior Thread

Post by _asbestosman »

The reality is that I may not be able to retire. Fortunately, my job is such that a may not have to.
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_The Nehor
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Re: MAD Saturday's Warrior Thread

Post by _The Nehor »

Might have had something to do with there already being several overpopulation threads and a new one based around a play from the 70's didn't really add anything.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
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_cinepro
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Re: MAD Saturday's Warrior Thread

Post by _cinepro »

I agree analytics. Ev'ry day the world is getting smaller (by far). It's bursting at the seams, what can we do? Zero population is the answer. Without it the rest of us are doomed!

Who can survive? Not one of us will be alive. Who can be strong
(when every inch is gone)?.

Every day the food supply is shrinking away. With starvation at our door what can we do? Licensing of children is the answer. Without it, the rest of us are through!

And it's a tragedy our oil is depleting each day. Every baby makes it last a shorter time. Legalized abortion is the answer. Without it, there is no peace of mind.
_moksha
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Re: MAD Saturday's Warrior Thread

Post by _moksha »

Analytics wrote:Lightbearer politicly said, "Please take your Anti-Mormon Neo-Communistic socialist/environmentalist propaganda elsewhere," and Selek said, "The bottom line is this: you're a liar, a demagogue, and a pious fraud attempting to promote a specific political/religious dogma and willing to distort and defame Mormon beliefs in order to advance your cause."


What else could they do? You were poking a hole through their bubble.

Promoting a specific political/religious dogma, eh? I wish they would quit combining their dogmas.


.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Some Schmo
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Re: MAD Saturday's Warrior Thread

Post by _Some Schmo »

Again, we're reminded how inherently dangerous religion is... as though anyone with at least half a brain didn't already understand that.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_The Dude
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Re: MAD Saturday's Warrior Thread

Post by _The Dude »

asbestosman wrote:The reality is that I may not be able to retire. Fortunately, my job is such that a may not have to.


I hope I won't want to retire from my job.
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
_asbestosman
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Re: MAD Saturday's Warrior Thread

Post by _asbestosman »

The Dude wrote:I hope I won't want to retire from my job.

Me too. So far, so good although I'd probably like to move around and work in different areas now and then.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
I support NCMO
_Analytics
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Re: MAD Saturday's Warrior Thread

Post by _Analytics »

The Dude wrote:That was a good post, Analytics. I saw it this morning and I hoped to participate in the thread later when I had more time, but now I see it was closed. Why? Because not a single person was able or willing to have a serious discussion?

I saw one person saying that it's the liberals' fault we have to keep growing, because a constant supply of young workers is needed to support the huge population of government supported retirees.

There is a measure of truth to that, but real cause isn't government supported retirees, but rather any kind of retirees. For example, say that we could go back in time and never implement Social Security. Further, let's say every worker is diligent and responsible in terms of personally saving money into IRA's and 401(k)'s, so that when the baby boomer generation retires, every single one of them has multi-million dollar nest eggs. A conservative's dream world, right? What then? What would happen to the economy with that percentage of the population not working, but rather trying to spend down their retirment savings? I'd suggest that with so many people trying to spend money and so few people actually producing goods and services, there would be a shortage of good and services, the prices of goods and services would be driven up so that supply equals demand, and we'd suddenly find prices so high that the retired senior were all poor.

The Dude wrote:So... I guess we're just going to keep having babies until the whole ponzi scheme explodes, with full awareness that that's where we are headed. My TBM father is a quite successful financial planner and he has the same ideas. It blows my mind.

Jesus will be leading us by the time that happens, and he'll be able to successfully guide us through it, I'm sure.
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

-Yuval Noah Harari
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