The Berry-Picker's "Laughter"

_Ray A · Post by **_Ray A** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:46 am

The sort of realistic humour missing from the Church today:

Some people say a person receives a position in this church through revelation, and others say they get it through inspiration, but I say they get it through relation. If I hadn't been related to Heber C. Kimball I wouldn't have been a damn thing in this church."

-- J. Golden Kimball

Post by **_The Nehor** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:59 am

Mister Scratch wrote:That's not really what I was talking about, though, The Nehor. You seem to have completely ignored the second half of the post. Let me rephrase, for clarity:

There are a lot of people (usually non-members and ex-mos) who laugh at aspects of the LDS Church--aspects including but not limited to: Zelph, garments, polygamy, historicity of the Book of Mormon, and so on. Do you laugh at these things too? And if not, does it make you angry to be laughed at over such things?

Do I laugh about Zelph and polygamy? Yes, if the joke is funny. Do I get angry at people for laughing at me because I believe in the Book of Mormon. Depends on the joke. I have friends of other denominations that find my belief in the Book of Mormon amusing and we quip back and forth about it but it's good-natured. If it's the arrogant, look at those stupid Mormons approach then I don't enjoy the humor and don't find it amusing when others use it.

Post by **_Gadianton** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:03 am

Full, from beginning to end of shocking revelations. Gripping. What a welcome contribution! Thank you again Mister Scratch.

I think that you have indeed stumbled onto the great truth behind the apologists' "laughing in the spirit" at the critics. Indeed, that nobody in the academic world will ever take the Book of Mormon seriously has to be rough for scholars. For amateur apologists, it seems to be even worse, because there is no compensation for their ridiculed beliefs. They can't say, "hey, I have a Phd, so there!" All they've got to fall back on is pure venom.

Post by **_Daniel Peterson** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:23 am

Oh yes. I also love J. Golden Kimball jokes. I own a couple of books about him, featuring lots of stories (true and apocryphal).

Mister Scratch wrote:Is Pat Bagley a Mopologist

Not that I've ever heard.

Mister Scratch wrote:or a supporter of "The Cause"?

I have no idea.

Mister Scratch wrote:The only Bagley cartoons I'm familiar with are political cartoons. Does Bagley also lampoon things like Zelph, Kolob, and Jewish Native Americans? If so, please let me know.

He published at least two books of Mormon-oriented cartoons, lampooning culture, doctrine, scripture, etc., quite a while back. Maybe he's done more since.

I bought them when they first appeared and laughed at them, and, when I came across them again just the other day after years, laughed at them all over again. A photocopy of one of his cartoons is on the door of my church office right now.

Mister Scratch wrote:Otherwise, your counterpunch here has failed pretty miserably, and you still wind up seeming like a grimly humorless, very angry former missionary who's still embittered over being laughed at.

It's essentially impossible for me to believe that you really, seriously, believe that.

I think you're posing.

Post by **_Daniel Peterson** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:28 am

Gadianton Scratch wrote:Full, from beginning to end of shocking revelations. Gripping. What a welcome contribution! Thank you again Mister Scratch.

As prophesied!

Gadianton Scratch wrote:I think that you have indeed stumbled onto the great truth behind the apologists' "laughing in the spirit" at the critics. Indeed, that nobody in the academic world will ever take the Book of Mormon seriously has to be rough for scholars. For amateur apologists, it seems to be even worse, because there is no compensation for their ridiculed beliefs. They can't say, "hey, I have a Phd, so there!" All they've got to fall back on is pure venom.

What brilliance! What wisdom! What insight! What humble charity! What a model of exemplary Christianity!

I'm in awe.

- Peterson Scratch

Post by **_Mister Scratch** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:00 am

The Nehor wrote: Do I get angry at people for laughing at me because I believe in the Book of Mormon. Depends on the joke. I have friends of other denominations that find my belief in the Book of Mormon amusing and we quip back and forth about it but it's good-natured. If it's the arrogant, look at those stupid Mormons approach then I don't enjoy the humor and don't find it amusing when others use it.

Thanks, The Nehor. That was what I thought. I appreciate your candor.

Post by **_Mister Scratch** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:04 am

Daniel Peterson wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:The only Bagley cartoons I'm familiar with are political cartoons. Does Bagley also lampoon things like Zelph, Kolob, and Jewish Native Americans? If so, please let me know.

He published at least two books of Mormon-oriented cartoons, lampooning culture, doctrine, scripture, etc., quite a while back. Maybe he's done more since.

I bought them when they first appeared and laughed at them, and, when I came across them again just the other day after years, laughed at them all over again. A photocopy of one of his cartoons is on the door of my church office right now.

In other words: No. The Bagley cartoons are completely innocuous and don't come any where near the kind of real, powerful satire that could affect positive change in the Church.

Mister Scratch wrote:Otherwise, your counterpunch here has failed pretty miserably, and you still wind up seeming like a grimly humorless, very angry former missionary who's still embittered over being laughed at.

It's essentially impossible for me to believe that you really, seriously, believe that.

I think you're posing.

Do I believe that you are angry over being laughed at? Yes, actually, I do.

Post by **_The Nehor** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:30 am

Satire is unlikely to create large-scale change in the LDS Church. Living the Gospel just might.

_Ray A · Post by **_Ray A** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:48 am

The Nehor wrote:Satire is unlikely to create large-scale change in the LDS Church. Living the Gospel just might.

Just curious. Do you think satire on this board will create a large-scale change in exmos?

They satirise you, so you satirise them. Biff for buff. How is this continuing contention "living the gospel"?

Matt 5:

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Post by **_Daniel Peterson** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:56 am

Mister Scratch wrote:In other words: No. The Bagley cartoons are completely innocuous and don't come any where near the kind of real, powerful satire that could affect positive change in the Church.

You haven't seen them. You weren't even aware that they existed.

(Nothing surprising in that, of course. Your consistent M.O. is to draw sweeping negative conclusions about things of which you know vanishingly little.)

As for effecting positive change in the Church, I doubt that you and I share many opinions about what such change might be.

Mister Scratch wrote:Do I believe that you are angry over being laughed at? Yes, actually, I do.

That's nice.

For all I know, you also believe that I'm three feet tall, with green skin.

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