Jesus never sent anyone to a doctor or a hospital

[_solomarineris]

You cannot blame this utter and total stupidity on Jesus. Nothing in the Bible stories where Jesus healed the sick say anything about him being against whatever were to available treatments back then. He even conformed the the accepted rules when he healed lepers telling them to go see a priest.
People just can be dumb.
But it does make me mad when people take religion to the utter extreme. The parents ought to be criminally prosecuted.[/quote]

Jayce,
I swear, you are the most smart guy who believes this whole scheme.
Your logic is impeccable until it comes to this silly stories.
How can you digest this stuff?

[_Calculus Crusader]

Jesus never sent anyone to a doctor or a hospital
Because he was an arrogant, ignorant jerk, that's why.
Granted no one knew medicine then, he made things up, created demons to fit his delusional Father-Son relationship.
That's nothing compared to his sending pigs, beset by demons, over the cliff.
Way to go Jesus.

No, stupid, Jesus did not send anyone to a doctor or a hospital because ancient doctors were not known for their efficacy and ancient hospitals were virtually nonexistent. Besides which, Jesus' healing was sufficient.

Incidentally, I recommend you see a head doctor.

[_Inconceivable]

I am happy to say I have never been under the necessity of calling a doctor to my family for forty years. I like them when they are gentlemen; when they are wise and full of intelligence I am very fond of them; but I do not ask them to doctor my family in any case; and there are no circumstances under which I think them necessary except in case of a broken bone, or where skilful mechanical or surgical aid is necessary. But to call a doctor to my family to administer physic to them, I am not under the necessity of doing it.

JD 13:142 Brigham Young July 11, 1869 SLC

[_neworder]

Maybe these people who allow their children to die and rely on God, are actually demonstrating the most faith of anyone, (think Abraham who was not only willing to see a child die but willing to murder his son)? Maybe these sorts of devoted followers are the actual chosen and have passed the test with flying colors?

This remind me of an Awake Article from the Jehovah Witnesses

http://elsewhereishere.com/jw/blood/You ... dFirst.pdf

Children die because they did not have blood transfusions and people talk about how great they were because they put God first.

[_Jason Bourne]

To you it is stupidity and should be prosecuted, to others it is demonstrating their utter trust and complete faith in God.

No TD it is stupidity.

It is not stupidity Jason, that makes for bad decisions like this, it is FAITH in God.

You are simply incorrect. There is nothing in the Bible nor for LDS, in additional LDS scripture that says one must check their brain at the door and do something as idiotic as let a child die.

You know, "your testimony doesn't come until after the trial of your faith"?

No I do not know. I think you are using this to beat religion. Look, this is, fortunately, a rare event. Most people of faith are not this radical, and yes, stupid.

Maybe these people who allow their children to die and rely on God, are actually demonstrating the most faith of anyone, (think Abraham who was not only willing to see a child die but willing to murder his son)? Maybe these sorts of devoted followers are the actual chosen and have passed the test with flying colors?

And maybe people who have no faith have a higher probability of becoming ax murderers, right?

I'm just saying, based on some scripture it is totally possible.

I am just saying that people do all sorts of stupid things. TO blame this stupidity on religion as some here are attempting to do is as bad as blaming no religion on some other stupid thing non believers do.

Who knows?

I do.

The above preacher may claim it is so, while the LDS prophets may claim the true test is to have a harem and know certain password and handshakes, or Muslim extremists thinking it is about suicide bombings and martyrdom.

Temple ceremonies and covenants are hardly like suicide bombs. Your comments border on being irrational.

Seems people act in accord with their beliefs, regardless of how they may appear to those outside their community.

And some people are just damn stupid as in this case.

[_Jason Bourne]

It should also be pointed out that back in Jesus's day, going to the doctor was probably about as effective as faith healing anyway. Heck, faith healing may have been more effective in some cases.

LDS should also tread lightly on the subject, since it would have been very easy for early LDS leaders to take an strict "anti-scientific-medicine" approach as well. Certainly, there are many LDS who eschew scientific medicine in favor of homeopathy, chiropractic, and other systems of dubious merit and discredited origin.

In 1979, Dialogue published an article titled "Herbal Remedies: God's Medicine?" which shared this anecdote:

A recent listener-response radio program in Salt Lake City discussed the death of a young father from bleeding ulcers. Believing it wrong to seek medical help, he had sought a cure from an herbal practitioner. His widow called in on the radio program and strongly supported her husband's decision (despite the extreme rarity of such a death with orthodox care) because it was "part of our faith and religion to use natural means." It became evident as she went on that she and her husband were devout Latter-day Saints, and that they had somewhere picked up the notion that "natural cures" are a part of the restored gospel and equivalent to God's means for healing his children.
............................


Significant numbers of Mormons wanting to live by faith quietly shun orthodox medicine and seek "natural cures" as a tenet of their faith. An occasional general authority lends further credence to the herbalist argument.

...........................

The Mormon Reformation of the latter 1850s brought a renewed emphasis on priesthood healing. The Saints were attacked from the pulpit for their undue "trust in the arm of man" as evidenced by excessive reliance on doctors (of all types). Jedediah M. Grant, who replaced Willard Richards in the First Presidency, led the Reformation evangelization--and apparently died from the overexposure attendant upon his prolific rebaptizing of hundreds of recommitted Saints.

There is an interesting article here that explores Brigham Young's feelings about doctors in that same issue:

The Imperfect Science: Brigham Young on Medical Doctors (page 26)

Also check out Lester Bush's and other articles in that issue on the subject.

Yea so what? Some Mormons can be utterly stupid too.

[_Jason Bourne]

Jayce,
I swear, you are the most smart guy who believes this whole scheme.
Your logic is impeccable until it comes to this silly stories.
How can you digest this stuff?

I realize they are stories that may or may not be based in factual history. I have faith and hope in God because I enjoy religion and what of the positive things it brings into my life.

[_Jason Bourne]

I am happy to say I have never been under the necessity of calling a doctor to my family for forty years. I like them when they are gentlemen; when they are wise and full of intelligence I am very fond of them; but I do not ask them to doctor my family in any case; and there are no circumstances under which I think them necessary except in case of a broken bone, or where skilful mechanical or surgical aid is necessary. But to call a doctor to my family to administer physic to them, I am not under the necessity of doing it.

JD 13:142 Brigham Young July 11, 1869 SLC

Keep in mind back then doctors often killed as many as they cured.

[_cacheman]

Here's a recent story that I read in a Friend magazine sent to my daughter.
http://www.LDS.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=21bc9fbee98db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=a2c6d9ab50758110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&hideNav=1

In the story, the mother and child are so sick that they've been laying on the floor for days having a hard time breathing. The family is happy to see the missionaries come, and ask them for money to buy medicine. The missionaries replied, “We can’t give you money,” Sister Clawson said, “but there is something even greater than money or medicine. Do you remember what we taught you about the priesthood?” Of course, after the blessing, they were healed.

Quite a story for young minds. What's the take-home message?

cacheman

[_truth dancer]

Hi Jason,

Basically you are suggesting that placing faith in God is stupid. Or that these people are stupid to trust God more than doctors.

These people believe God is more powerful than doctors (see Cacheman's Friend story above), and have FAITH in God's ability to heal.

No, they are not stupid, they have faith. Unless you think having faith in God is stupid.

For the record I don't think these types of people are stupid just seriously mislead and deceived by religion and religious leaders.

Of course it is rare to see parents letting their children die due to their faith, having this sort of faith is rare, no question about it. But perhaps less so than you know.

I had an LDS neighbor whose two year old child died because they believed the power of the priesthood would save him, when a simple trip to the doc would easily have allowed him to live. Even after he was dead in their arms they believed the priesthood power could raise him up.

Of course you don't hear about these incidents in F&T meeting. What you hear is that it was their time to go and God needed this child on the other side, and if God wanted him to live he would have lived, etc. etc. etc.

My point is, FAITH is what creates these very cruel and horrific things, not stupidity.

If life is really about gaining faith and trust in God, along with obedience, the more faith the better. Demonstrating FAITH in God seems to me to be the ultimate way to pass the test. Again, think Abraham.

~td~