Sam Harris Talks about the Defence of Religion

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_Some Schmo
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Re: Sam Harris Talks about the Defence of Religion

Post by _Some Schmo »

dartagnan wrote:Schmo, don't take your frustrations out on me. I know it must really burn you up to know you publicly wedded yourself to this idiot, and now you're stuck with him. I think I'll start calling you Hansel.

I'm not frustrated. I don't mind that people know I admire and respect Harris. I do. He's a brilliant guy. You can dispute it all you want, but that just makes you an even bigger idiot (assuming that's possible).

You really are a moron. That's an established fact, indirectly by your own admission:

- You think Dawkins is an idiot. Dawkins is at least a hundred times smarter than you are. What does that make you?
- You think Harris is an idiot. Harris is at least a hundred times smarter than you are. What does that make you?
- You think Dennett is an idiot. Dennett is at least a hundred times smarter than you are. What does that make you?
- You think Bill Maher is an idiot. Even Bill Maher is at least a hundred times smarter than you are. What does that make you?

You'd do well to shut up, but I know you won't, because you're a moron. You're likely better off stalking "babes" and "sweeties" over the internet than talking on this forum. Maybe you should stick to that instead?

I noticed you've quoted me in your signature. I guess that's one way to add some intelligence to your posts, since nothing else seems to work.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_dartagnan
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Re: Sam Harris Talks about the Defence of Religion

Post by _dartagnan »

Anyone who knows me understands the hyperbolic nature of my use of the word idiot. When I came back from Brasil I watched a show called House. Has anyone seen it? This guy has a team of doctors who he is constantly insulting, calling them idiots every time they do something wrong. Of course he doesn't really believe they are stupid, only that they can at times engage in stupid commentary. Such is the case here. These guys have intelligence, but it is driven by their own bigotry, resulting in truly stupid commentary, arguments and beliefs.
I'm not frustrated.

Of course you are. What you just said would embarrass anyone.
I don't mind that people know I admire and respect Harris. I do.

No, that isn't the problem. The problem is your idiotic claim that he is one of the greatest thinkers of our time. Really? Then why are you incapable of producing a single innnovative thought poduced by Harris? Again, you spoke in ignorance. The fact is you like his bigotry so you're trying to exhalt him to some special status where he doesn't belong. Dawkins will be dead soon, probably die of gingivitis, and you'll be left with a huge gapping hole in atheistic credibility. So you're trying to promote the self-made speaker Harris and the journalist Hitchens as quickly as you can. The atheistic pool of reputable scholars really must be running dry.
He's a brilliant guy. You can dispute it all you want, but that just makes you an even bigger idiot (assuming that's possible).

What is so brilliant about him? Name something. You can' even do that much because you know damn well that anything you mention is going to be shown to be either 1) stupid or 2) borrowed from previous bigots or 3) both. I have already shown he doesn't even believe what he says about science and taking nothing without evidence. And yes, the guy did say people with certain relgious believes should be killed - or that it would be ethical to do so. I'm certain there are people here who concur with that. And he defends Stalin, tries to imply that the Jews during the holocaust had it coming, etc. Yes, we can see why you have his poster above your bed.
You really are a moron. That's an established fact, indirectly by your own admission: - You think Dawkins is an idiot. Dawkins is at least a hundred times smarter than you are. What does that make you?

Dawkins is an absolute idot when discussing religion, and I have demonstrated as much on numerous occassions. No one here has been able to defend him, including you.
- You think Harris is an idiot. Harris is at least a hundred times smarter than you are. What does that make you?

Harris is an idiot when discussing religion, and I have demonstrated as much on a couple of occassions, including this one. Here is yoru big chance to prove I am wrong, and yet you cannot. All you can do is attack me instead. This is standard protocol here for our resident atheists.
- You think Dennett is an idiot. Dennett is at least a hundred times smarter than you are. What does that make you?

I watched Dinesh D'Souza mop the floors with Dennett on his own home turf. I downloaded a talk by Dennett where he was discussing memes to his students. I've discussed this before. Dennett is little more than Dawkins' lapdog, for several reasons. His functionalist view of consciousness is also idiotic, and I have discussed this as well. You don't have the mental capacity to discuss these issues. All you can do is sit back and reassure yourself they're "at least a hundred times smarter." What scientific experiment confirmed this? None. So you have blind faith in them. This statement is similar to a Mormon insisting the bishops are more spiritual than the next guy. That is what their faith is based upon. And so it is with your blind faith in the four horsemen. But you cannot defend their arguments and don't feel the need to since they are above reproach.
You think Bill Maher is an idiot. Even Bill Maher is at least a hundred times smarter than you are. What does that make you?

you're not going to come across as witty by asking loaded questions after begging questions and relying on circular reasoning (i.e. "You're stupid, as proved by the fact that they are smarter than you!") I almost like Maher because I have a special place in my heart for people who can make me laugh. But he can be an idiot too, and his film flat out deceives by presenting refuted information from Zeitgeist. If he were half as smart as you think, and had hlf the integrit he leads on, then he would not have mentioned such idiotic things in his film. But I guess that's ethical in your book. The end justifies the means.
I had never heard of Harris, or read anything by him before your post appeared.

Wow, so you ignored the thread discussing someone you never heard of, until you saw my name. At that point you decided to start reading, but upon realizing it was I, you merely scanned through it. So my presence got you interested and disinterested all at once. I'll buy that.

EA, simply put, Dawkins goes way beyond what the evidence will bear. Is the difference between Gould and Dawkins simply degree? Perhaps. But it is clear Dawkins derives his arguments based not on science, but rather his agenda to see religion rendered "irrelevant." OF course he has managed to write several books on this topic, which is why i say it is at the core of teh New Atheists' agenda. He wrecklessly tosses the authority of evolutionary biology into every other field in the vicinity, hoping to explain everything religion claims to explain. I've already provided examples. And it gets old with you trying to portray me as a creationist or someone who rejects evolution. The careful reader will notice that I never have denied evolution. I've asked some challenging questions that get down to the nitty gritty, but you only assumed these were made to disprove evolution. I've never said that.

With respect to my comment above, a while back a thread was started by an atheist (can't remember who) asking why theists are "willfully ignorant" of evolution. Someone else said one of his favorites was that "we came from apes." I then presented a various photos attributed to Darwinism, of a monkey gradually walking upright until morphing into a man. My point was simply this. No wonder people have been misled about humans coming from apes. The image is literally published in virtually every book discussing the subject. Then just as Tarski and others assured us the statement is false and misleading, you came in and said "I think it is fair to say we came from apes." ROFL! Make that another reason why people can be misled. Tarski and Dude were telling us we didn't come from apes at all, and you're calling it a "fair statement." It was irony overload. The thread was started to ridicule theists for misunderstanding evolution, and here were the leading atheistic proponents proving the point that it doesn't require theism to be confused.

Also the atheist "Who Knows" jumped in, admitted he knew virtually nothing about the subject. Turns out misunderstanding wasn't limited to theists after all. You then proceeded to change the subject by attacking straw men from creationist websites, while I was asking deep questions to challenge the atheists to come up with the same answers, to further highlight the irony that few atheists had answers to begin with.

Ever sinc e you keep referring to my "misunderstanding" of evolution illicitly. You don't even understand why that thread was made, and why I responded the way I did. You and others kept thinking I was trying to refute evolution, even though I explicitly said I agreed with it.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_antishock8
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Re: Sam Harris Talks about the Defence of Religion

Post by _antishock8 »

Did Dart just compare himself to a fictional television character?

Phew...
You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left
_dartagnan
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Re: Sam Harris Talks about the Defence of Religion

Post by _dartagnan »

That fictional character stars in one of the most popular shows today, precisely because people connect and even identify with that personality. His personality isn't fictional, it is very real. When I first saw the show I couldn't stop laughing because he does exactly what I do on here, and yet nobody is dumb enough to accuse him of actually thinking he's hired a staff of "dumb" doctors. I think it is ironic that atheists praise people like Shermer who proposes to explain why and how smart theists believe and say stupid things, and yet they're unwilling to concede that the same science applies to them.

The point is that there are limits to what the internet can express. Emoticons can help, but it still remains a limited means of expression. I think Schmo is the only person here who really thinks I use the term idiot in the strictest, broadest and most literal sense, every time I use it.

But then, it may be that he doesn't, but only pretends to, so he can have something to use to divert attention from the points made. To be sure, he's addressed none of them.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_Calculus Crusader
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Re: Sam Harris Talks about the Defence of Religion

Post by _Calculus Crusader »

Some Schmo wrote:I'm not frustrated. I don't mind that people know I admire and respect Harris. I do. He's a brilliant guy. You can dispute it all you want, but that just makes you an even bigger idiot (assuming that's possible).


To the contrary, that reflects well on Kevin's intelligence.

- You think Dawkins is an idiot. Dawkins is at least a hundred times smarter than you are. What does that make you?


If that were the case, then Dawkins' research would not have dried up 20+ years ago and he would not have been shuffled off to that bs chair for the "public understanding of science." Also, he would not have written a criticism of classical theism that was pedestrian at best.

- You think Harris is an idiot. Harris is at least a hundred times smarter than you are. What does that make you?


Bitch please.

- You think Dennett is an idiot. Dennett is at least a hundred times smarter than you are. What does that make you?


Sophoclaus?

- You think Bill Maher is an idiot. Even Bill Maher is at least a hundred times smarter than you are. What does that make you?


The only thing worse than a damn moron is a pretentious damn moron like you and Maher. Bill Maher is a mythicist nut/liar, an anti-vaccine nut/liar, and a stimulus nut/liar.

You'd do well to shut up, but I know you won't, because you're a moron. You're likely better off stalking "babes" and "sweeties" over the internet than talking on this forum. Maybe you should stick to that instead?

I noticed you've quoted me in your signature. I guess that's one way to add some intelligence to your posts, since nothing else seems to work.


Get over yourself, you mediocre pos. You are not remotely as intelligent or learned as you think.
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

(I lost access to my Milesius account, so I had to retrieve this one from the mothballs.)
_antishock8
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Re: Sam Harris Talks about the Defence of Religion

Post by _antishock8 »

Irony Alert:

Season 1, Ep. 5:

Sister Mary Augustine: Why is it so difficult for you to believe in God?

Gregory House: What I have difficulty with is the whole concept of belief. Faith isn’t based on logic and experience.

Augustine: I experience God on a daily basis, and the miracle of life all around. The miracle of birth, the miracle of love. He is always with me.

House: Where is the miracle in delivering a crack-addicted baby? Hmmm? And watching her mother abandon her because she needs another score. The miracle of love. You’re twice as likely to be killed by the person you love than by a stranger.

Augustine: Are you trying to talk me out of my faith?

House: You can have all the faith you want in spirits and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don’t be an idiot. ‘Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.

Augustine: I don’t believe He is inside me and is going to save me. I believe He is inside me whether I live or die.

House: Then you might as well live. You’ve got a better shot betting on me than on Him.

Augustine: When I was 15, I was on every kind of birth control known to man, and I still got pregnant. I blamed God. I hated Him for ruining my life, but then I realized something. You can’t be angry with God and not believe in him at the same time. No one can. Not even you, Dr. House.

Season 1, Ep. 17:

Dr. Allison Cameron: Do you know why people believe in God?

House: I thought you didn’t believe in God.

Cameron: I don’t.

House: Well, then you better be making a very good point.

Cameron: Do you think they pray to Him and praise Him because they want Him to know how great He is? God already knows that.

House: Are you comparing me to God? I mean, that’s great, but just so you know, I’ve never made a tree.

Cameron: [smiling] I thank you because it means something to me. To be grateful for what I receive.

House: You are the most naïve atheist I’ve ever met.

Season 2, Ep. 19:

House: God talks to him.

Robert Chase: It’s not psychosis, he’s just religious. The only medical issue that showed up on the blood work is low sodium.

House: No — you talk to God, you’re religious. God talks to you — you’re psychotic.

Chase: A lot of people experience their religion as something more than symbolic. That doesn’t mean that—

House: God ever talk to you when you were in the seminary?

Chase: [laughs]

House: [gives him a smug look]

Chase: No.

House: God’s loss, our gain. He’s either psychotic, or a scam artist.

Eric Foreman: He was actually , uh, really impressive.

House: Well yeah, with the burning bush and all it’s quite the show.



Cameron: Are we even certain he had a seizure? Hymn singing and healing, he does it all the time, doesn’t he?

House: Isn’t it interesting that religious behavior is so close to being crazy we can’t tell it apart.



James Wilson: Yeah, that’s why you didn’t want me in your poker game. Because when it comes to being in control, Gregory House leaves our faith healer kid in the dust. And that’s why religious belief annoys you. Because if the universe operates by abstract rules you can learn them, you can protect yourself. If a Supreme Being exists he can squash you any time he wants.

House: He knows where I am.

Season 3, Ep. 12:

Eve: I don’t wanna terminate.

House: You wanna keep the baby?

Eve: Abortion is murder.

House: True. [nods] It’s a life. And you should end it.

Eve: [rationalizing] Every life is sacred.

House: [looks to the heavens in exasperation] Talk to me, don’t quote me bumper stickers.

Eve: It’s true.

House: It’s meaningless.

Eve: It means every life matters to God.

House: Not to me, not to you. [getting up to pace around] Judging by the number of natural disasters, not to God either.

Eve: You’re just being argumentative.

House: Yeah! I do do that. What about Hitler? Is his life sacred to God? Father of your child? Is his life sacred to you?

Eve: My child isn’t Hitler.

House: Either every life is sacred or…

Eve: [shouts] Stop it! I don’t wanna chat about philosophy!

House: You’re not killing your rape baby because of a philosophy.

Eve: It’s murder! I’m against it. You for it?

House: Not as a general rule.

Eve: Just for unborn children?

House: Yes! [beat] The probable exceptions to rules is the line drawn. Might makes sense for us to kill the ass that did this to you. But where do we draw the line? Which asses do we get to kill? Which asses get to keep on being asses? Nice thing about the abortion debate is we can quibble over trimesters, but ultimately there’s an ice-cold line — birth. Morally, there isn’t a lot of difference. Practically, huge.

Season 4, Ep. 2:

House: Rational arguments don’t usually work on religious people. Otherwise there would be no religious people.

18: You’re an atheist.

House: Only on Christmas and Easter. The rest of the time, it doesn’t really matter.

18: [Laughs.] Where’s the fun in that? A finite, un-mysterious universe…

House: It’s not about fun! It’s about the truth.

Season 4, Ep. 12:

Chris Taub: Cryoglobulinemia might account for the symptoms.

[They enter House's office.]

House: Except for the one you missed.

Taub: There’s no change in her condition.

House: I’m not talking about a new symptom. I’m talking about one that presented six months ago.

[He goes behind his desk.]

Taub: Look, she’s nuts, but we can’t just give her ten ccs of atheism and send her home.

House: Religion is a symptom of irrational belief and groundless hope. Altered mental status, on the other hand, is a symptom of porphyria.

Lawrence Kutner: She didn’t develop uncontrollable anger, crying, anxiety. She just decided to go to temple.

House: The woman didn’t just choose to keep kosher. [sits] She went directly to the extremes of Hasidism, a life of stringent rules. She became a masochist.



House: You live according to God’s six hundred commitments, right?

Yonatan Arnoff: [folding his arms] Six hundred thirteen.

House: You understand them all?

Arnoff: Takes a lifetime of learning…

House: But you follow the ones you don’t understand because the ones you do understand make sense, and you believe the guy who created them knows what he’s doing.

Arnoff: Of course.

House: So you will trust my diagnosis and you’ll let me treat her, because in this temple, [scarily] I am Dr. Yahweh.

[Yonatan has a look of disbelief on his face.]

Arnoff: [wagging his finger at Cuddy] I want a new doctor.
You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left
_antishock8
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Re: Sam Harris Talks about the Defence of Religion

Post by _antishock8 »

Calculus Crusader wrote:Get over yourself, you mediocre pos. You are not remotely as intelligent or learned as you think.


God, I love it when Jesus' love transforms a person.
You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left
_Chap
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Re: Sam Harris Talks about the Defence of Religion

Post by _Chap »

You know, I always read with skepticism those posts by DCP in which he expressed suspicions that everybody out there was really just Mr Scratch hiding behind different avatars.

But reading the latest by CC and comparing it with dartagnan's epithet-rich style ... well ...

Or they may just be a couple of long-winded and bad-tempered people who are convinced they are much cleverer than everybody else, and find this board a good place to express that conviction without people saying "yeah, yeah ..." and walking to the other end of the bar.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Some Schmo
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Re: Sam Harris Talks about the Defence of Religion

Post by _Some Schmo »

Chap wrote:You know, I always read with skepticism those posts by DCP in which he expressed suspicions that everybody out there was really just Mr Scratch hiding behind different avatars.

But reading the latest by CC and comparing it with dartagnan's epithet-rich style ... well ...

Or they may just be a couple of long-winded and bad-tempered people who are convinced they are much cleverer than everybody else, and find this board a good place to express that conviction without people saying "yeah, yeah ..." and walking to the other end of the bar.

You may be right. Both of them think they're incredibly bright, and yet both can't stop saying stupid things ad nauseam.

They're the joke everyone thinks they are. At least they have each other to impress. They're the only ones they can convince of anything, that's for sure. It's kind of amazing they have enough time to write all that crap when their hands are so busy stroking each other.

*shrug*
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_antishock8
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Re: Sam Harris Talks about the Defence of Religion

Post by _antishock8 »

I'm still amused Dart would compare himself with a fictional atheist in regards to wit, intelligence, and logical thinking. Very. Very amused.
You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left
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