Peterson Pace - "Those who can, do ....."

[_Dr. Shades]

Harmony:

With all due respect to you, I believe that the point has been made that the opposition to women's education as practiced by the Taliban stems from factors other than Islam.

Hence your point is, I believe, moot in this particular case.

[_The Nehor]

I did very little equating of the Islam polygamy to Mormon polygamy as promoted by J. Smith and B. Young other than to suggest Mormon polygamy was worse..for 2 reasons. It was a religious requirement to get into Celestial heaven whereas Islam does not make it a religious requirement and second in Mormonism it was encouraged to have as many wives as possible whereas in Islam only up to 4 was allowed. Now although community practiced polygamy today is not exactly like it was in J. Smith day because at that time women were not born into it but in essence chose as adults, none the less it was oppressive and abusive for the vast majority and certainly the woman DCP gave as an example was not representative of how a typical woman in polygamy lived. Of course J. Smith was not living openly polygamy not even with his wife, and he didn't care for, nor spend time with his sexual partners, because apparently for him it only about sex.

This paragraph is laced with so many suppositions, guesses, and ignorance I don't know where to begin. I don't think you know anything about 19th Century LDS polygamy. I think the whole concept in your mind is a caricature.

Quite frankly I'm not particularly interested in listening to either you or DCP defend J. Smith's particular polygamous relationships, nor B. Young's. The fact of the matter is that polygamy does not enable a loving relationship of equals when a man has to share his resources, time and energy with many women. So to make polygamy a religious requirement to be worthy of the highest heaven, which is what the Mormon religion per B. Young and J. Smith promoted, was to inevitably end up with an abusive demeaning marriage system for women.

So my polygamous g-g-grandmother who talked about her partner in life with great love talked about her affection for him and her love for her sister-wives and commented on how blessed her family was and discussed her love of books and education was very, very repressed? Despite your rank ignorance of the LDS practice of polygamy you somehow think you know enough to say this?

And by the way, I've not argued as Harmony has that Islam is responsible for women's illiteracy. But I do think that polygamy in a society is oppressive and will lead to women being poorly treated, not treated as equals with men, and not encouraged to develop skills or get an education because in all likelihood that would lead them to leave such an unfulfilling demeaning oppressive system.

So you're ignoring many of those like the sister DCP mentioned (she was not an isolated incident) who sought out education and got it. More then a few LDS plural wives went back east to Universities.

Still, if you'd rather caricature the entire concept as a Lifetime original movie feel free.

[_antishock8]

Ok. Would someone be kind enough to explain to me how the recent laws passed in Afghanistan, where "... legislation came out of three years of debate and revision involving both Islamic scholars and members of parliament" AREN'T Islamic? Afghanistan is an Islamic state and its constitution defers to the Quran as the ultimate authority. So, the law simply reiterates rules from Islam's holy book as regulating a woman's daily regimen from sex (state sanctioned RAPE, by the way) to leaving the house alone. How are women, who are totally controlled by the STATE... An ISLAMIC state based on Islamic scholarship and Shariah law... can achieve a healthy education that would make them on par with the rest of the world's women?

Anyone?

Bueller?

[_Daniel Peterson]

Ok. Would someone be kind enough to explain to me how the recent laws passed in Afghanistan, where "... legislation came out of three years of debate and revision involving both Islamic scholars and members of parliament" AREN'T Islamic?

You'll have to locate somebody who has claimed that the government in Kabul isn't Islamic.

Plainly, I'm not your man.

[_harmony]

Harmony:

With all due respect to you, I believe that the point has been made that the opposition to women's education as practiced by the Taliban stems from factors other than Islam.

Hence your point is, I believe, moot in this particular case.

Shades, with all due respect, since I am not in moderator mode, I don't have to be a Shades' clone. And I respectfully disagree. So I don't see the point as moot at all.

[_antishock8]

Harmony:

With all due respect to you, I believe that the point has been made that the opposition to women's education as practiced by the Taliban stems from factors other than Islam.

Hence your point is, I believe, moot in this particular case.

I totally disagree. It's their strict interpretation of Islam, to limit the contact of women with men, and to prevent their women from receiving a "vulgar" Western education that compels them to stop women from receiving an education. It's EXACTLY an Islamic attitude that is causal in this case.

[_antishock8]

Ok. Would someone be kind enough to explain to me how the recent laws passed in Afghanistan, where "... legislation came out of three years of debate and revision involving both Islamic scholars and members of parliament" AREN'T Islamic?

You'll have to locate somebody who has claimed that the government in Kabul isn't Islamic.

Plainly, I'm not your man.

There are people on this board claiming that x-y-z happen because of other factors rather than THE patently obvious factor of Islam/Shariah. To be honest I'm not sure how Islamists get around the Aisha thing since she was about as liberated as a woman could be, according to the records we have. It seems to me she should be held up as a lawful example of Islamic female behavior, but I suppose this kaffir just doesn't get it.

[_Dr. Shades]

I totally disagree. It's their strict interpretation of Islam, to limit the contact of women with men, and to prevent their women from receiving a "vulgar" Western education that compels them to stop women from receiving an education. It's EXACTLY an Islamic attitude that is causal in this case.

But Dr. Peterson mentioned that the hadith itself advocates giving women an education.

So, isn't their interpretation, at least as far as the education of women is concerned, out of harmony (no pun intended) with a strict interpretation of Islam?

[_Pokatator]

The Taliban is to Islam as the FLDS is to Mormonism.

The FLDS have a strict interpretation of Joseph Smith's Mormonism.

[_antishock8]

Yeah, the difference is HALF the Islamic world holds a strict interpretation of Islam as outlined by their ulemahs. It's called Shariah law. And it's Islamic. That's 500 million Muslims that are "FLDS" in a sense. The rest? Apostates. Jack-Muslims, so to speak. Shiites. Secularist or "ethnic" Muslims.

There is a BIG difference and it's an equivocation to equate FLDS'ism with Sunni Islam.