Spong laments the passing of Roman Catholicism

[_BartBurk]

As a Roman Catholic convert from Mormonism, I think Spong should look at his own Episcopalian Church before commenting on the death of the Roman Catholic Church. There were 150,000 converts who came into the Catholic Church in the U.S. at the Easter Vigil this year -- that's higher than any year since the 1950s. There were a million converts worldwide. And that doesn't include the number of babies baptized into the Catholic Church. I'm not saying you can just look at increasing numbers of converts as proof the Catholic Church is still alive, but it certainly is one evidence that it is not "passing." If Spong wants to look at a "passing" church he needs to look at the American Episcopalian denomination which is splintering before our very eyes. The Anglican Church is only growing in places that reject Spong's theology.

[_Roger Morrison]

Again this is not a short reading, but an insightful one. Agreed to by an ex-Nun, Seperate School Principal and a forever student.

I think LDSism can be seen here. Change the names, time and place and the same arrogance and denial is common in both of these "Only True Churches"...

Oh, come on, Roger. That's more than a bit over the top. Some of the arrogance, and the inabilty to grasp what is important is the "now" is definitely the same (earrings, anyone?), but the Catholic church brought this current mess on themselves. We complain a lot about LDS history here, but we have nothing to compare to the sexual piccadellos of some current Catholic priests in the 2009 LDS church. Or even in the 2000 - 2009 LDS church. Not even close. This isn't history Spong is talking about; this is current events.

Roger: OK, maybe "...a bit..." But it seems you got my point, "arrogance" and "...the now." Don't forget "denial." Also Catholicism has been around for many centuries making their mistakes. LDSism for less than 2 centuries, and per capita???

Personally, I have no comment on Protestantism to make. I left it long ago, as the wasteland it was, and currently remains, in my mother's church anyway. I see no more leadership, no more inspiration, no more practical advice in coping with life in any Protestant denomination, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim or any other religion or world view than I do in the LDS church. And that includes the atheists.

To the above, generally I would have agreed with you. That's why LDSism appealed to my wife & me in the '50s. However after experiencing the NEWER more enlightened Protestant sects I find that they have extensive community, as well as in-house out-reach programs that make many LDS Wards & Branches look pityfully parochial and ineffective. Quite probably resulting in the slow/no-growth in many areas of North America.

I respectfully suggest LDS local leaders, and caring members, visit the vibrant EV congregations in their communities to see and experience the good feelings and Spirit that they eminate. Of course that might be difficult for many LDS to do... Like you know eh, they're led by inspiration. What ever could they learn from the Assembly Of God folks???? Try it yourself Harm. What harm could it do?
Roger
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[_harmony]

However after experiencing the NEWER more enlightened Protestant sects I find that they have extensive community, as well as in-house out-reach programs that make many LDS Wards & Branches look pityfully parochial and ineffective. Quite probably resulting in the slow/no-growth in many areas of North America.

I respectfully suggest LDS local leaders, and caring members, visit the vibrant EV congregations in their communities to see and experience the good feelings and Spirit that they eminate. Of course that might be difficult for many LDS to do... Like you know eh, they're led by inspiration. What ever could they learn from the Assembly Of God folks???? Try it yourself Harm. What harm could it do?
Roger
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In the newer Protestant churches I've been to, I've seen a lively service and quite a bit of showmanship. For a staunch Catholic or Mormon, who expects a quieter more reverent service, it's a bit disconcerting (which isn't to say that crying babies are all that reverent either). I can see the appeal of a service like that. But I don't see that it's all that much better at worshipping.

As for the out-reach, LDS are notoriously backwards when it comes to outreaching into communities at large (except via the missionary program), joining with other churches in ministerial associations (often we aren't welcome), or outreaching into the truly needy (with soup kitchens or shelters). We are cautiously open, should they come to us, but we are 'way too busy to go to them. Ever. Not ever. Don't ask. Never.

We have a foodbank in my village that caters to migrant workers and farm laborer families. My husband delivers beans there once a month. Hundreds of pounds of beans. It's his and his company's contribution to a group of folks in need. He gives them money every month when he delivers the beans, so they can buy food for their shelves. He has help with that project from the ward, at Christmastime. The ward has food and coat drives for the foodbank, at Christmastime. The rest of the year, he does it alone. The ward doesn't even notice the foodbank the rest of the year.

We do a pitiful job of outreach to the nonLDS neighbors here. It is what it is, and it sure as heck isn't what it isn't, at least here.

[_Roger Morrison]

Hi Harmony, you said:

[quote][In the newer Protestant churches I've been to, I've seen a lively service and quite a bit of showmanship. For a staunch Catholic or Mormon, who expects a quieter more reverent service, it's a bit disconcerting (which isn't to say that crying babies are all that reverent either). I can see the appeal of a service like that. But I don't see that it's all that much better at worshipping. (UL added by RM)

/quote]

You are right, it is disconcerting to experience a different mode of service. Change always takes getting used to. What i tend to look at are expressions on faces: Happy, smiling, joyous, open, responsive... Or, tight lipped, constrained, anxious, expressionless, staid, tense, suspicious... The Branch in my home town proudly displays a sign telling everyone who enters to remember this is a House of The Lord...reverence is required... Or words to that effect.

I think and believe that sign repugnant, insulting, inappropriate and completely out of place in today's society, if it ever was???

Per the ULd: I wonder about the concept, and practice, of "...worshipping." EVs & Religious Conservatives of every Christian & Muslim stripe make a BIG thing of worship. As I did when an ignorant, ego-driven LDS convert and advocate.

I now wonder what/whose purpose is being served by this primitive practice? Surely not "Gods"! "God" contiues without worship. What might not continue is the false religions that are dependent on members reminding themselves, through worship, that THEY have a relationship with "God", because THEY worship HIM! But that does seem to be what the Mormon Church emphasises: Their exclusive relationship/franchise with "God"...

Respect & appreciate your husband. Sounds like a really carring person. (As do you :-) Probably would be whatever church he/you attended--or didn't attend...
Warm regards, Roger
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