Spiritual beings having human experiences

[_ajax18]

I've come to know again that we are truly spiritual beings more than anything else. We're just having a short human experience. It's strange how it happened. No grand repentance. I haven't even paid my tithing. But I've felt the spirit again and it really didn't have a lot to do with what I was doing. I live differently now because of this knowledge but it's been nice. It's as if I've discovered an entire dimension of myself that I didn't know how to access. And now I that I know it's there, I access it all the time.

The spirit world is a lot better place than where we are now. Perhaps that's why it's hidden. I know this all sounds like foolishness to you all. All I know is that it's good to have it. Yeah I've been a TBM, a questioner, and an inactive. But that was before I got to know what I know now. All I know is that it's good to know a better world is there. It's not even really a comforting thought for now as much as it is a place where it's actually "fun," to be alive.

Well if there is one thing my journey through religion has taught me. We all have to find our own path. I wish I could help, hence my poor attempt, but best of luck to all of you. I mean it. Even the sisters.:)

[_karl61]

I think I understand what you mean - you can fast and pray on your own, do good works, pray for others without being part of an organization. You can find happiness inside and periodically get a hint from an outside force which you can give your own name to. If you are brought up in the Church you may not ever find that out, as an LDS member may think happiness only comes to members of the Church. I thought this for over twenty-five years and have fought major depression the entire time since I was excommunicated at age nineteen. I'm glad God still gives me hints.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Ajax,

Very cool!

I would like to hear more if you feel like sharing! :-)

What sort of experiences you have had, why you are convinced there is more, how you view the "spiritual" world, how you now view heaven, God, relationships, where you on in terms of the LDS church, etc. etc.

You have been on quite a path and it is fabulous that you have found it fun to be alive! (smle)

~td~

[_Brackite]

I've come to know again that we are truly spiritual beings more than anything else. We're just having a short human experience.

I agree!

[_moksha]

I think my spiritual dance is enhanced by moving with the ebb and flow of others. Sometimes in counterpoint, other times in a united rhythm.

[_Inconceivable]

Yeah I've been a TBM, a questioner, and an inactive. But that was before I got to know what I know now.

Ajax,

I guess I don't quite understand.

So what are you now if you are not a TBM, questioner or inactive? Or are you now a different kind of TBM, questioner or inactive? Or are you saying that you are now active?

What exactly is it that you know now that makes you whatever you are..well, now?

[_ajax18]

Sorry it's been a while Inconceivable. I reread my post and fully admit that it seems contradictory and not really explainable. But to a large extent that is what the spirit world is to us right now. It's different.

I've suffered a lot of personal tragedy recently and sometimes that helps you see. Funny that I left the LDS church, at least unofficially, when I got sick and couldn't do the work anymore. Usually people get religious when they see their own mortality. All I wanted was to distance myself from it. Now I go when I feel like it and for my own benefit. Reading near death experience books and researching it has filled me with a new hope and what feels to me like a new awareness. On top of that some of the things I experienced when someone probably closer to me than anyone (at least genetically) died recently.

I wish I could explain to you in human terms how I know there is more. But I can't. Truth is that we'll all find out for ourselves at some time. And perhaps that's how life should be. Nobody can really do it for you. You just have to realize that you're not just star dust. There is a you that goes beyond, and I firmly believe that for even some of the worst of us, it's still better than the world we're in, much better. Hence, I've been happier, much happier, because I now know that this world isn't all there is. That thought was depressing, at least for me. But I affirm that we are spiritual beings now just as much as before we were born. And while it may be impossible to see the spiritual world now, we can still tap into this part of ourselves.

It amazed me watching Gladiator, my all time favorite movie. The Romans worshipped their ancestors and tried to talk to them. That doesn't sound crazy to me at all anymore. When the witnesses said they saw the plates with their spiritual eyes, my first response was that it was just a cop out. But spiritual eyes make a lot of sense to me now.

We're all individuals. Individual genetics, individual life experiences and no two of us are the same. So as much as I think we would all like to help when we learn something good, I'm afraid it's something that we all have to find for ourselves. But don't forget the spiritual "you." At some point we'll all have to rely on that part of ourselves whether we like it or not. But I think we will like it.

Best wishes. Live your life well. You'll have to account to yourself for it. Nonexistence and being incapable of caring isn't going to happen so I wouldn't rely on that. Be prepared. I'm not saying you have to accept Mormonism. I'm just saying we'll all have to account to ourselves for forever in a way.

[Guest]

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you have said. That, in a way has been my journey thus far.

However, I have experienced a devastating, unconsolable and profound feeling of loss and betrayal of things spiritual . I fraud seemingly perpetrated by those that have conveyed the messages from beyond the veil. Messages that I had received nearly all of my life.

I can still trust myself, but how can I ever trust a connection from the spiritual realm ever again? I used to channel feelings of love and healing within my prayers, when I taught, and particularly during the blessings I gave to others.

I think this profound loss has occurred to many of us to one degree or another as we have begun processing the truth of the foundations of our Mormon heritage. Many of us speak of literally becoming physically and spiritually sick upon this realization. In some ways, I feel like my heart has died. Spiritually damaged to the point where I feel the connections of trust are irreparable and inconsolable.

This is the depression that currently holds me hostage. I just can't seem to break free of it.

My cry for help is about as profound as the sound a tree makes when it falls in the forest when no one is there to hear it.

Some would prefer to flip the switch and embrace shades of atheism rather than honestly re-evaluate or try to understand the nature and source of spiritual experiences in their life. Short term, it would be a much easier road to just toss it all.

Does this make sense to anyone?

(edited once again for clarity)

[_ajax18]

Sure it makes sense. In many NDEs I've read, the witness points out that he is an individual and cannot separate himself from his own biases. I'm not sure we'll separate ourselves from those magically at death either. Perception certainly plays a role.

I felt betrayed by Mormonism in ways. The idea that the leader is always right and it's authoritarian style that seemed to place position above truth.

My only advice is to look within yourself. Just because Mormonism has errors and may not be as completely true as was purported, doesn't change the fact that there is a spiritual you. Perhaps that spiritual you knew about those problems before you even came to this earth. Sometimes looking within provides more answers than looking out. And while shades of atheism does blunt the pain for a while, we're still spiritual beings and sooner or later we'll have to deal with that. But the spirit world isn't really unpleasant. I've seen not so good people who are far better off there than we are here. So it's not to scare you, it's just to point out that it will happen and to plan for it. I didn't see a place of torment even if God wasn't there. It just renewed my confidence in myself and reminded me who I was. I'm willing to bet that yours will be the same.

I was definitely spiritually sick after the mission and part of that was due to physical sickness as well. What helped me most was to be alone and free of outside influence. My message is mainly that there is a greater you within. True power to take on this life, truly comes from within. It helped me to be more confident, believe in myself, and in a way take responsiblity for my spiritual self once more. I guess what I'm saying is that we've been trained for so long to look to Mormonism for answers. I think we already have the answers within.

I know that doesn't sound like much help. I'm sorry for what you've went through and while I wish I could say I know how it feels, I know that's not completely possible. But I have a feeling about who you are and who a lot of us here were. Even if we don't know everything and may be far from omnipotent, Believe in yourself:)

[_ajax18]

I can still trust myself, but how can I ever trust a connection from the spiritual realm ever again?

Would it help to know that spirituality is not synonymous with Mormonism or any theology necessarily? I recognize that our spirits are not infallible. But I think we can find value in every step of the journey, even if we were deceived for a time.

Spiritually damaged to the point where I feel the connections of trust are irreparable and inconsolable.

It's other people I don't trust. Part of what bothers me in Mormonism is when they insist that God blesses people in this life or purposely leave out the fact that it may not be in this life for paying tithing etc.

I know I'm an eternal being and think Joseph Smith was right on with the idea of the premortal existence, without beginning, without end etc. I see much of the sermon on the mount as right on. God having a body seems right on. The gospel making people happier in this life just isn't the truth in my opinion. I can appreciate this may happen for some individual cases, but I know for sure it's not the truth for everyone, cause I've lived it. And so have you, so in a way we understand each other.

This is the depression that currently holds me hostage. I just can't seem to break free of it.

It's not always possible to break free from depression. The say God himself sorrowed for the sins of the world. But if you're following your gut you eventually will, maybe not in this life but eventually you'll conquer. And while that doesn't make us feel any better right now. When you start to think about it, we have no other choice but to pound away until we conquer.

Some would prefer to flip the switch and embrace shades of atheism rather than honestly re-evaluate or try to understand the nature and source of spiritual experiences in their life. Short term, it would be a much easier road to just toss it all.

Only for a while would it be easier in my opinion. It helped get me out of my suicide mode to toss religion for a while. But I guess I just came to decide I liked the spirit world better than the world I'm in now. And while my understanding is incomplete and I don't find much common ground with a lot of people in and outside the Church. The spirit can quicken and drive a man better than the body. But you have to cut out the bad influences both within Mormonism and outside it. Look within and I gurantee you're going to find power within yourself you forgot you had. Everyone stresses looking to the Savior and I won't deny that I need Him. But then again maybe that's why I've been left alone without His help, to be given a chance to do for myself.

A man once told me during my mission, "Yes I believe in God, but in my way, nobody elses." Of course organized religion scoffs at that. But you know what, I think that can be a great thing, maybe the best thing ever.