WjExMo wrote:You're just jealous because you can't have sex with a 14 year old girl.
Well, the only people who should want to have sex with a 14 year old girl are 14 year old boys. Maybe 15 year old boys, and 13 year old boys. But any adult male who wants to have sex with a 14-year old girl, or who is jealous of Joseph Smith for doing it, should be tarred and feathered.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
When I was younger I remember being taught about Joseph Smith's tar and feathers incident being related to bitter apostates and anti-Mormons who just couldn't leave the church alone, but in fact, I believe Joseph was tarred and feathered for trying to hook up with some guy's sister. Does anyone remember more about that incident? It's been a while since I read anything about it.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Ah, yes, it was Nancy Marinda Johnson, and her brother Eli is supposed to have led the mob that tarred and feathered Joseph. They brought along a doctor, who was supposed to castrate Joseph, but in the end he declined to do it.
Interestingly, ten years or so later Joseph Smith "married" Nancy Marinda, now married to Apostle Orson Hyde, two years into his three-year mission to Palestine.
How about that? Joseph sends a guy on a mission, and while he's gone he "marries" and boinks his wife.
Oh yeah, but the Creator of the Universe wanted him to. That means it must have been OK.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Yeah, I think if a creepy 30-year old religious nut was secretly trying to seduce my 14-year old daughter to marry him, and I found out about it, I would be leading my own tar and feather mob to his house. I don't think societies attitudes have changed much towards adults using their position of authority to screw teenagers.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
Miss Taken wrote:Yes, I guess that's a good point.
Especially, if one lives outside the US and watches hollywood movies about the wild west. I can see why you would think that the OP made a good point. However, I tend to look at the past through the eyes of Little house on the Praire. Nice respectable people going to church on sunday who suddenly become bigoted and prejudice against difference.
Now these people on the frontier were not the most educated people in the world...which would make them more intolerant than most. And they were frontier souls just like the LDS who were settling there. But I do not see other groups being persecuted by the frontier folk unless of course, we consider the Indians and the Africans people---which of course many on the frontier did not. But the Mormons were white and so being white would be considered human beings. And singled out.
Now later the KKK came into play and catholics and jews were also singled out...but this was a little later in the century and did not compare to the persecutions of the early saints.
And at the end of day, being a frontier person is no excuse for the violence of the mobs.
Stop watching Hollywood movies... and stick to the BBC.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Dwight Frye wrote:Are we guilty of presentism when we condemn those mobs and vigilantes and purveyors of "frontier justice" that gave the early members of the Church such a hard time? These were, after all, simply men of their time, place, and culture. It would be intellectually dishonest to hold them to the enlightened standards of our day.
Right?
No, they would be yahoos both in the past and the present.
Sethbag wrote:Ah, yes, it was Nancy Marinda Johnson, and her brother Eli is supposed to have led the mob that tarred and feathered Joseph. They brought along a doctor, who was supposed to castrate Joseph, but in the end he declined to do it.
Interestingly, ten years or so later Joseph Smith "married" Nancy Marinda, now married to Apostle Orson Hyde, two years into his three-year mission to Palestine.
How about that? Joseph sends a guy on a mission, and while he's gone he "marries" and boinks his wife.
Oh yeah, but the Creator of the Universe wanted him to. That means it must have been OK.
I don't remember if Nancy led the mob but I do know that there was no proof of horseing around with Nancy at the time of the tar and feathering. It was all heresay. Nothing is mentioned here:
And as we can see from that account Joseph Smith's relationship with her is rather muddled by second hand testimony
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Dwight Frye wrote:Are we guilty of presentism when we condemn those mobs and vigilantes and purveyors of "frontier justice" that gave the early members of the Church such a hard time? These were, after all, simply men of their time, place, and culture. It would be intellectually dishonest to hold them to the enlightened standards of our day.
Right?
Actually, presentism exists on this board only when it favors the critics. But yes, you guys are guilty of presentism on this board. And many are guilty of shock and awe presentism: Hey...!!! Lookie here....Joseph did that and Joseph did this....And BY did that and said that...golley the church ain't't true. type of posts.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
I couldn't find it that nancy led the mob...at least it wasn't in the Bushman biography. But there was an idea that it was all built on heresay that Joseph Smith was involved with Nancy, if I am correct in my interpretation.
But was nancy unhappy as a Mormon. It seems that she died faithful.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
We may not have the soiled dress, Why Me, or the first-hand testimony of Joseph or Marinda saying that they definitely did or did not associate inappropriately. But do you think that Eli, if indeed he really did lead that mob, acted in a vacuum?
Let's see, Joseph had already been involved in a "nasty, filthy affair" with Fanny Alger before this, and we know as a fact that he was involved with a lot of women, including especially girls who were living under the same roof as him (as Nancy Johnson was at the time of the tarring and feathering), including mid-teenaged girls, married women, a Relief Society councilor, and so forth, later on after this episode. This episode neither began, nor ended, the escapades of Joseph Smith.
In the context of Joseph's sexual history, and given that Eli (likely) lead a mob to tar and feather, and castrate him (which suggests strongly a sexual element to the grievance) allegedly for sexual meddling with his sister, do you really have much reason to be skeptical of this motive?
What do you think is more likely, that there really was something of a sexual nature going on between Joseph and Marinda, or that Eli and the rest of the mob were just making this up out of spite and malice toward the Prophet, perhaps at the prompting of Satan, just to persecute Joseph? From where I sit, given how many women Joseph Smith did approach to enter a relationship which would at least justify, and many times actually include, sexual relations with him, I don't have a hard time at all believing that Joseph was probably tarred and feathered for coming on to Nancy Johnson.
And even if we don't have the stained sheets from whatever transpired between Joseph and Marinda prior to the tarring and feathering, we do know that Joseph took Marinda as his own wife, despite the fact that she was already (and currently) married to someone else at the time. It's clear Joseph had his eye on Nancy, and it's not in the least unbelievable that Eli acted out of outrage at something the "Prophet" really had done.
Last edited by Anonymous on Thu May 14, 2009 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
However, I tend to look at the past through the eyes of Little house on the Praire. Nice respectable people going to church on sunday who suddenly become bigoted and prejudice against difference. 
and stick to the BBC.