Of gay "marriage," virginity, and JSM's creepy fixation

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_JohnStuartMill
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Re: Of gay "marriage," virginity, and JSM's creepy fixation

Post by _JohnStuartMill »

Calculus Crusader wrote:
EAllusion wrote:Yeah, I'll give you seven common arguments currently used against gay marriage that were used just the same against interracial marriage:

1) An appeal to established religious wisdom / scriptural intepretation


Scripture does not prohibit interracial marriage, unless, perhaps, you are talking about Jews and Moabites.
Whether or not you believe that the Bible prohibits interracial marriage is irrelevant to the question of whether anti-miscegenation bigots have appealed to the Bible.

2) An appeal to the practice being "unnatural."


This is a fine example of an argument being legitimate in one context but not another.

And THIS is a fine example of special pleading.

The mere fact that people from different races can produce viable children demonstrates that there is nothing unnatural about interracial, male-female coupling. By way of contrast, homoeroticism is completely incongruous with the proper procreative ends of our generative organs and thus a violation of ordo naturalis.


Hmm... let's try a little experiment:

By way of contrast, old people sex is completely incongruous with the proper procreative ends of our generative organs and thus a violation of ordo naturalis.

Yup! That works, too!

3) Predicting that recognizing (or allowing) the practice will lead to a breakdown in society


That argument is not necessarily illegitimate in this context. The data from countries where gay "marriage" is established will decide it.
So if, say, gay marriage has existed in Massachusetts for five years and the state hasn't descended into chaos yet, you'd have no problem with gay marriage?

4) An appeal to a longstanding social tradition of banning the practice


This is actually important in establishing the correct socio-historical context for state and federal constitutions. When read in their proper contexts, it is impossible to arrive at the conclusion that any constitution demands gay "marriage."


Hrm... let's try a little experiment:

This is actually important in establishing the correct socio-historical context for state and federal constitutions. When read in their proper contexts, it is impossible to arrive at the conclusion that any constitution demands interracial "marriage."

Yup! That works, too!

7) An appeal to the right of the majority to determine what marriages it finds acceptable and the wrongness of judges to interpret the law in a way that violates this majority will.


Many make that argument; I do not. My argument is simply that in no case where gay "marriage" was imposed by judicial fiat were the judges exercising legitimate constitutional authority.
You have not distinguished these rulings from the rulings that legalized interracial marriage over the protestations of an even larger supermajority..
"You clearly haven't read [Dawkins'] book." -Kevin Graham, 11/04/09
_rcrocket

Re: Of gay "marriage," virginity, and JSM's creepy fixation

Post by _rcrocket »

After this rip-roaring exchange I'd say CC has the better zingers. JSM's intelligence is just so much and then it sort of hits a plateau. Just my opinion.
_JohnStuartMill
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Re: Of gay "marriage," virginity, and JSM's creepy fixation

Post by _JohnStuartMill »

Congratulations, CC! crockett thinks you got the better of me in this exchange. Sure, he's a socialist who believes that the Book of Abraham is a translation from an ancient document -- and in the airtightness of that Jaredite submersible! -- but don't let that keep you from celebrating.
Last edited by Guest on Mon May 18, 2009 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
"You clearly haven't read [Dawkins'] book." -Kevin Graham, 11/04/09
_rcrocket

Re: Of gay "marriage," virginity, and JSM's creepy fixation

Post by _rcrocket »

JohnStuartMill wrote:Congratulations, CC! crockett thinks you got the better of me in this exchange. Sure, he's also a socialist who thinks that the Book of Abraham is a translation from an ancient document -- and in the airtightness of that Jaredite submersible! -- but don't let that keep you from celebrating.


I also believe in the literal resurrection as well as the crossing of the Red Sea. I'm not sure it is an adequate rejoinder to all my posts to say, simply, yeah but you believe in the Book of Mormon.

How would you feel if I kept reminding viewers that you went to that Stoner U, Sonoma State?
_JohnStuartMill
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Re: Of gay "marriage," virginity, and JSM's creepy fixation

Post by _JohnStuartMill »

rcrocket wrote:
JohnStuartMill wrote:Congratulations, CC! crockett thinks you got the better of me in this exchange. Sure, he's also a socialist who thinks that the Book of Abraham is a translation from an ancient document -- and in the airtightness of that Jaredite submersible! -- but don't let that keep you from celebrating.


I also believe in the literal resurrection as well as the crossing of the Red Sea. I'm not sure it is an adequate rejoinder to all my posts to say, simply, yeah but you believe in the Book of Mormon.
It certainly devalues your opinion in CC's eyes, which was most of the point of my post.

How would you feel if I kept reminding viewers that you went to that Stoner U, Sonoma State?

I wouldn't mind, because it's not true. I went to a much better undergrad than you did, BYU-boy.
"You clearly haven't read [Dawkins'] book." -Kevin Graham, 11/04/09
_rcrocket

Re: Of gay "marriage," virginity, and JSM's creepy fixation

Post by _rcrocket »

JohnStuartMill wrote:I wouldn't mind, because it's not true. I went to a much better undergrad than you did, BYU-boy.


Well, congratulations! You're doing rather well here notwithstanding.
_JohnStuartMill
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Re: Of gay "marriage," virginity, and JSM's creepy fixation

Post by _JohnStuartMill »

Notwithstanding what, exactly? That sentence doesn't even make sense when I look at it through my seer's hat.
"You clearly haven't read [Dawkins'] book." -Kevin Graham, 11/04/09
_rcrocket

Re: Of gay "marriage," virginity, and JSM's creepy fixation

Post by _rcrocket »

Spare me from this cretin.
_JohnStuartMill
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Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:12 pm

Re: Of gay "marriage," virginity, and JSM's creepy fixation

Post by _JohnStuartMill »

Notwithstanding what, crock?
"You clearly haven't read [Dawkins'] book." -Kevin Graham, 11/04/09
_The Dude
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Re: Of gay "marriage," virginity, and JSM's creepy fixation

Post by _The Dude »

I've seen people say crock is an internet bully, but I'm not sure that applies in this case, since a bully should be bigger and tougher than the one he's picking on.
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
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