Implications Of Discovering The Body Of Jesus.

[_Ray A]

This is only a hypothetical, but let's say that the body of Jesus was discovered in a tomb, and it was positively identified as the body of Jesus. In reality I'm not sure how this can be done, unless an inscription was also found along with the body. However, for the purpose of this thread, let's say it did happen. How would this affect not only Christianity, but other religions? How would it affect the world? What would change? How would it affect you?

(PS: I'm not asking for "it will never happen" comments, nor testimonials that "it will never happen".)

My guess is that many believers would claim that Jesus' resurrection was a "spiritual resurrection". There was no need for him to retain his body. And perhaps when Thomas and others touched him, he only "materialised for their benefit", but went back to a spiritual body. Christian apologists would now go frantically to work to see what they "missed in scripture". Incredible, and heretofore unrealised and marvellous interpretations would now become "obvious".



Supplement Reference on this phenomenon: When Prophecy Fails.

Let us begin by stating the conditions under which we would expect to observe increased fervor following the disconfirmation of a belief. There are five such conditions.

1. A belief must be held with deep conviction and it must have some relevance to action, that is, to what the believer does or how he behaves.
2. The person holding the belief must have committed himself to it; that is, for the sake of his belief, he must have taken some important action that is difficult to undo. In general, the more important such actions are, and the more difficult they are to undo, the greater is the individual's commitment to the belief.
3. The belief must be sufficiently specific and sufficiently concerned with the real world so that events may unequivocally refute the belief.
4. Such undeniable disconfirmatory evidence must occur and must be recognized by the individual holding the belief.
The first two of these conditions specify the circumstances that will make the belief resistant to change. The third and fourth conditions together, on the other hand, point to factors that would exert powerful pressure on a believer to discard his belief. It is, of course, possible that an individual, even though deeply convinced of a belief, may discard it in the face of unequivocal disconfirmation. We must therefore, state a fifth condition specifying the circumstances under which the belief will be discarded and those under which it will be maintained with new fervor.
5. The individual believer must have social support. It is unlikely that one isolated believer could withstand the kind of disconfirming evidence we have specified. If, however, the believer is a member of a group of convinced persons who can support one another, we would expect the belief to be maintained and the believers to attempt to proselyte or to persuade nonmembers that the belief is correct.

These five conditions specify the circumstances under which increased proselyting would be expected to follow disconfirmation.

(Emphasis added)


In regard to businesses:

Startup companies and even groups within large companies will make predictions on sales, product acceptance, impact on society, etc. Frequently, as these prophecies fail they make even more grandiose predictions rather than correct their plans to match the reality. As they run out of money they seek more investors -- proselytizing with renewed vigor.

>>>

[_AlmaBound]

My guess is that many believers would claim that Jesus' resurrection was a "spiritual resurrection".

That is the current belief of the Jehovah's Witnesses, if I understand it correctly.

[_Uncle Dale]

...
How would it affect you?
...

I, for one, would be thrilled at the potential for new interest,
study and application of his life and teachings.

So far in life, I have seen no evidence of "translated" and/or
"resurrected" beings, possessing glorified/celestialized bodies
of flesh and bone.

I doubt very, very much that such supernatural beings exist, or
that they have any influence over human affairs.

On the other hand, I maintain my longstanding profession --
that to meet Jesus is to encounter God. I'm content to allow each
and every Jesus follower to interpret and respond to that fact
in his/her own way.

No need for exclusionary creeds -- even those that say "rose again."
What does it mean to "rise from the dead?" Paul attempted to base
a religion for Christians on Jesus' example, in this regard --- but I do
not see how Paul's literalization of Jesus' continued presence among
his followers necessarily provides/demands human bodily resurrection.

Such a doctrine was foreign to the biblical faith until shortly before the
time of Jesus, and I am not at all convinced that he taught the tenet.

Uncle Dale

[_Jersey Girl]

Ray,

This is a great question! I want to give myself more time to reflect on this as I go about my day but here is my initial reaction/response.

Here are some of your comments:

How would this affect not only Christianity, but other religions?

I don't know how it would affect other religions. How would it affect Christianity? I think as implied in the second series of comments that I posted below, it would set people off on a deeper study of scripture. Hopefully, a deeper study of Jewish symbolism/spiritual thought/expression which I think is utterly lacking in mainstream Christian Bible study in general.

How would it affect the world? What would change?

I think that change would come only after years of study and contemplation on the part of believers and scholars as they try to accomodate the new discovery into their already existing beliefs, presuppositions, and seek to explain the discovery within the framework of those elements. I don't think Christianity would fall apart, for the teachings and example of Jesus found in scripture serve as principles for living that are valid and valuable.

How would it affect you?

As I implied in the above, I would still continue to try to follow the example of Christ, which in my experiences is a lifelong cycle of striving, falling short, self-assessing, and striving again.

My guess is that many believers would claim that Jesus' resurrection was a "spiritual resurrection". There was no need for him to retain his body. And perhaps when Thomas and others touched him, he only "materialised for their benefit", but went back to a spiritual body. Christian apologists would now go frantically to work to see what they "missed in scripture". Incredible, and heretofore unrealised and marvellous interpretations would now become "obvious".

I'm not sure if I agree with the piece about Thomas, but I have no other explanation at the moment so I'll accept it as plausible.

I think you're right about Christian apologists (I would add Bible scholars to that) and I think one of the main things that they've "missed in scripture" is bothering to educate themselves about Jewish cultural, thought, and belief. I don't claim any expertise in that regard, however, I'm convinced that mainstream Christians have no clue about Jewish symbolism such as "coming in the clouds" and those sorts of references that we take literally. (We can't even read the introduction to Revelation and process who it was written for and why!) I don't think much of what we embrace was meant to be taken literally and that is where we as a group, fall short time and time again.

And finally, I think it would be difficult for some Christians (individuals and groups) to admit that we were wrong. I think the first impulse would be to fit the discovery into what we think we already know and if it didn't, along with the admission that we were wrong would be the statement "God's ways are not man's ways" or "No one can know the mind of God". In other words, thoughts that we rely on when we don't understand or can't explain something. As I wrote that it struck me how much believers avoid taking responsibility for getting something wrong and automatically pin it on God!

[_Jersey Girl]

Aside to Ray: Would you do one of these for Mormonism where the Gold Plates are found and authenticated? How would that affect ex-Mo's, and non-LDS affiliated critics?

(I'm really logging off now. I mean it this time! ;-)

[_KimberlyAnn]

Black and white thinker that I am ( ), I have to say that without the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, there is no Christianity. There is only a wise rabbi who gave some good advice.

Without a bodily resurrection, Saul never met anyone on the road to Damascus. His writings are the mad mumblings of a delusional man.

Without a bodily resurrection, Mary Magdalene and the disciples are liars and Thomas doubted 'till his death.

Without a bodily resurrection, Jesus didn't conquer death and sin. He's just another corpse like everyone else who has died or who will die and there is no hope for the Christian believer.

Undoubtedly, were Jesus's body to be found, there would be believers trying to reconcile that devastating discovery with their faith, but that would be an exercise in futility to my thinking. To each their own, I suppose.

KA

[_DarkHelmet]

If the body of Jesus was discovered, and it was identified as Jesus without any shadow of a doubt (not sure if that would be possible), there would be chaos in the Christian world. Christianity is so embedded in Western culture, I can't imagine the fallout from such a discovery. I might even agree that covering up a discovery like that would be in the best interests of the public.

[_Uncle Dale]

...there would be chaos in the Christian world.
...

So much the better.

Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.

Uncle Dale

ps: The Abigenses got it right -- it was Innocent III, Arnaud-Amaury,
Simon de Montfort, and Dominic who got it wrong.

[_bcspace]

This is only a hypothetical, but let's say that the body of Jesus was discovered in a tomb, and it was positively identified as the body of Jesus. In reality I'm not sure how this can be done, unless an inscription was also found along with the body. However, for the purpose of this thread, let's say it did happen. How would this affect not only Christianity, but other religions? How would it affect the world? What would change? How would it affect you?

Obviously Christianity could not possibly be true in that case.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh C'thulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

[_Ray A]

I’ll make brief comments and return to addressing this later today or tomorrow.

Alma Bound: The JWs have already reinterpreted the “second coming” after several spectacular failures at this prophecy. They would have no problem rationalizing away the discovery of the body of Jesus, and continuing to believe that blood transfusions violate the word of God. They are the sort of people you want in charge of a company as frontmen when it’s about to collapse. Even after it has all hit the rubble they will be trying to sell cheap bricks to the first buyer in order to keep it going financially.

Uncle Dale: I agree it would be very intriguing. That old Mormon joke about Christ returning to Salt Lake City would have to be replaced with, “sorry, but he ain’t returning, anywhere”.

Jersey Girl: That’s something that immediately came to my mind – Christians and Mormons would start to appreciate other religious traditions in a way they never had before, coming to understand the historical and cultural roots of religious belief without strings attached, e.g., “only true religions”, “only true messiahs”, and the $64 million question would be how to reinterpret the Holocaust minus that offensive term and belief, “messiah killers”. This of course would be no skin of the noses of Jews or Muslims, neither of whom believe in the “risen messiah”. The revolution in understanding would be something akin to what “secular” Biblical scholars have been doing for two centuries. Tom Paine would also make much more sense.

KA: I think this is the view that the majority would take. As C.S. Lewis once wrote, “Jesus was either what he said he was, or a madman”. Who knows, we might even see a “Recovery From Jesus Belief” forum, as undoubtedly many would continue to believe in a “spiritual messiah” and attempt to downplay the evidence, and the Foundation for Ancient Research and Messiah Studies (FARMS) would undoubtedly keep the faith going among the remnant of true believers by disputing the archaeological find.

Dark Helmet: This is one possible scenario, and it reminds me of the “alien intelligence conspiracy theory”. Governments might successfully be able to persuade the public that the identified remains of Jesus is only “folklore” and hearsay rife among “crackpots”. Credible scholars could be silenced, and even if they spoke out would immediately be discredited by government propaganda and would quickly lose academic credibility, because the remains of Jesus would be carefully guarded in Area 51.

BC: Not only would Christianity not be “true”. Mormonism wouldn’t be either.


How would it affect me? I wouldn’t change a thing, nor break stride, because I would have known all this by other means. If anyone reads history and the scriptures for 30-plus years and hasn’t worked it all out, there’s some business about to collapse anxiously looking for your services.