I know this Government is True:

[_karl61]

what does this mean? suppose you were brought up in a house that said that the American Government was God's true Government. That the Founding Fathers were inspired by God via revelation. But as you went to school you learned that what was set up in the eighteenth century was really a coctail of thoughts that were observed, tested, written up about, somethings dropped, ammended through the last two thousand years.

So what about those who are brought up in the LDS Church and say that it is true. But as they read they find out that it too has pulled from religious thoughts for two thousand years and that a great deal of LDS thought was pulled other groups that practiced certain things, especially during the previous two hundred years: looking for truth from the old civilizations, marriage, polygamy, Baptism, baptism for the dead, temple ordinances, ordaining elders to the Melchizedek Priesthood, searching the stars for truth.

I think it would better if the Church wrote a manual about truth through the ages and point out how certain things Joseph Smith read about, observed, or was taught, were instrumental in how he developed things. Give credit where credit is do and you might have more credibility.

[_The Nehor]

I have no idea if the Church is true...I have no idea what that would even mean.

[_karl61]

Nehor - in the last five years have you said " I know this church is true" before an LDS group.

[_The Nehor]

I don't think so. I probably said it a few times as a teenager or child. I don't think I've said it since I went on a mission. I've said the Gospel is true, I've expressed gratitude that I have the Church as an organization.

I do think saying the Church is true is an expression that the Gospel the Church promulgates is true and I assume that is what God meant when it was said in the D&C. I choose not to use it to avoid confusion.

[_bcspace]

But as they read they find out that it too has pulled from religious thoughts for two thousand years and that a great deal of LDS thought was pulled other groups that practiced certain things, especially during the previous two hundred years: looking for truth from the old civilizations, marriage, polygamy, Baptism, baptism for the dead, temple ordinances, ordaining elders to the Melchizedek Priesthood, searching the stars for truth.

And God brings it all together under one nation. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "I know this government is true."

[_karl61]

then should the LDS church point out where they took their materials from - and give credit where credit is do.

I also saying that if someone said I know this government is true it would seem kind of funny.

[_karl61]

and - instead of a restoration of the gospel via revelation it should be a recreation of the true gospel via inspiration.

[_Ray A]

Don't you know that all governments are true? And what's more they work on behalf of the Lord:

Noah's Ark... If it happened today

And the Lord spoke to Noah and said, "In six months I'm going to make it rain until the whole earth is covered with water and all the evil people are destroyed. But I want to save a few good people, and two of every kind of living thing on the planet. I am commanding you to build an Ark."

And in a flash of lightning, He delivered the specifications for an Ark. "Okay," said Noah, trembling with fear and fumbling with the blueprints.

"Six months, and it starts to rain," thundered the Lord. "You'd better have the Ark completed, or learn to swim for a very long time."

Six months passed, the skies clouded up and rain began to fall. The Lord saw that Noah was sitting in his front yard, weeping. ..... and there was no Ark.

"Noah," shouted the Lord, "Where is the Ark?"

"Lord, please forgive me!" begged Noah. "I did my best. But there were big problems. First, I had to get a building permit for the Ark construction project, and your plans didn't meet code. So I had to hire an engineer to re- draw the plans. Then I got into a big fight over whether or not the Ark needed a fire sprinkler system.

"Then my neighbor objected, claiming I was violating zoning by building the Ark in my front yard, so I had to get a variance from the city planning commission.

"Then I had problems getting enough wood for the Ark, because there was a ban on cutting trees to save the Spotted Owl. I had to convince the U.S. Fish and Wildlife that I need the wood to save the Owls. But they wouldn't let me catch any owls. So, no owls.

"The carpenters formed a union and went out on strike. I had to negotiate a settlement with the National Labor Relations Board before anyone would pick up a saw or hammer. Now we have sixteen carpenters going on the boat, and still no owls.

"Then I started gathering up animals, and got sued by an animal rights group. They objected to me taking only two of each kind.

"Just when I got the suit dismissed, EPA notified me that I couldn't complete the Ark without filing an environmental impact statement on your proposed flood. They didn't take kindly to the idea that they had no jurisdiction over the conduct of a Supreme Being.

"Then the Army Corp of Engineers wanted a map of the proposed new flood plain. I sent them a globe.

"Right now, I'm still trying to resolve a complaint from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission over how many Croatians I'm supposed to hire. The IRS has seized all my assets, claiming I'm trying to avoid paying taxes by leaving the country. And I just got a notice from the state about owing them some kind of use tax. I really don't think I can finish the Ark for at least another five years," Noah wailed.

The sky began to clear. The sun began to shine. A rainbow arched across the sky. Noah looked up and smiled.

"You mean you're not going to destroy the earth?" Noah asked hopefully.

"No," said the Lord sadly. "The government already has."

[_moksha]

I have no idea if the Church is true...I have no idea what that would even mean.

Perhaps this statement is one devoid of exact meaning, but rather represents a public declaration of unquestioning loyalty. Semper Fidelis.

[_truth dancer]

I think it would better if the Church wrote a manual about truth through the ages and point out how certain things Joseph Smith read about, observed, or was taught, were instrumental in how he developed things. Give credit where credit is do and you might have more credibility.

Totally agree.

The LDS church is like all other new religions, taking what is out there and rearranging, reinventing, reorganizing; adding a little here, discarding a little there.

It would be much better, IMHO to make the claim that a religion is a way to God, rather than God breathed.

Nothing wrong with a woman or man forming or creating a religion that brings together ideas and beliefs that she or he feels are beneficial to life. What becomes problematic is when these founders claim they are speaking for the one and only God, and their way is the only way.

~td~