Witnesses to fraud

[_Mercury]

...
The point: they signed a statement.

Did you Mormons place enough value upon the worth of that document to preserve it?

UD

Zing!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[_Daniel Peterson]

This is a fascinating thread, psychologically speaking.

[_marg]

And your point is???? It was a group effort. Nothing out of the ordinary in signing a group statement. The point: they signed a statement.

Of course there is a difference to writing up a statement of what one experienced and perhaps then having it notorized versus a statement prepared then signing it. And one can see it for example in this case, by the mere fact that their experiences when they get to relate them personally, are not consistent with one another and not a good reflection of what the Book of Mormon statement claims.

[_why me]

And your point is???? It was a group effort. Nothing out of the ordinary in signing a group statement. The point: they signed a statement.

Of course there is a difference to writing up a statement of what one experienced and perhaps then having it notorized versus a statement prepared then signing it. And one can see it for example in this case, by the mere fact that their experiences when they get to relate them personally, are not consistent with one another and not a good reflection of what the Book of Mormon statement claims.

Lets look at it this way: For some strange reason you find yourself a Book of Mormon witness. You sign a statement. Suddenly, you find yourself in the spotlight. And this spotlight lasts your entire life. Over and over again you are asked the same question: did you see the plates? And over and over again, you answer yes. Do you get tired of the question and answering it? And why would your statement be exactly as other witnesses statements? This wasn't rehearsed. And yet, no one denied what they saw. And in the end, that is the noodle in the noodle bowl.

[_marg]

Lets look at it this way: For some strange reason you find yourself a Book of Mormon witness. You sign a statement. Suddenly, you find yourself in the spotlight. And this spotlight lasts your entire life. Over and over again you are asked the same question: did you see the plates? And over and over again, you answer yes. Do you get tired of the question and answering it? And why would your statement be exactly as other witnesses statements? This wasn't rehearsed. And yet, no one denied what they saw. And in the end, that is the noodle in the noodle bowl.

So then Why me, which witnesses saw the plates with spiritual eyes, which with natural eyes? Which witnesses heard the voice of God with spiritual hearing, with natural hearing? Which witnesses touched the plates and examined them without them being covered with cloth. Which witnesses touched them but they were covered with a cloth?

[_BishopRic]

Over and over again you are asked the same question: did you see the plates? And over and over again, you answer yes. Do you get tired of the question and answering it? And why would your statement be exactly as other witnesses statements? This wasn't rehearsed. And yet, no one denied what they saw. And in the end, that is the noodle in the noodle bowl.

But as long as you're making assumptions, what if some of these same people (witnesses) also claim to have seen other things that totally contradict the Mormon truth claims -- and never denied them?

I think "credibility of the witnesses" enters into it.

[_Daniel Peterson]

On the "spiritual eyes" gambit that's currently fashionable in certain determined circles, Richard Lloyd Anderson's "Attempts to Redefine the Experience of the Eight Witnesses" is useful:

http://mi.BYU.edu/publications/jbms/?vo ... m=1&id=357

[_marg]

Why me please don't assume DCP has answered for you. DCP & I have a mutual agreement to not discuss with one another, so I tend to ignore his posts.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Why me please don't assume DCP has answered for you. DCP & I have a mutual agreement to not discuss with one another, so I tend to ignore his posts.

She also typically refuses to read recommended books and articles.

[_why me]

Why me please don't assume DCP has answered for you. DCP & I have a mutual agreement to not discuss with one another, so I tend to ignore his posts.

I think that I answered your question at the top of page 4.