Gathering Hen On Mount Olympus

[_Nightlion]

1. True saints make it or they fall hard all the way out. There is no middle ground with those made partakers of Christ's power.
a. Snow's absence therefore heralds him a Son of Perdition.
b. When then, did he fall? When he betrayed the secrets of Joseph Smith that laid the foundation of his murder. He became guilty of innocent blood and fell hard. Judas did not kill Christ only betrayed him. Lorenzo was in on all the secrets because his sister was.

Snow's absence in Smith's vision is interesting, but not conclusive that he had "fall[en] hard all the way out." Smith refers to the presence of "other choice spirits." Snow could have been among their number.

The LDS mindset of honoring you file leader would not have allowed for a mere "other choice spirits" regard of a past LDS prophet.

Which secrets of Joseph Smith did Snow betray? We know he was absent at the time of the prophet's assassination, being in Ohio at the time. What proof do you have that Snow betrayed Joseph, outside of your reading of section 138?

Spiritual Wifery what else?

2. What would Satan do with a highly placed insider?
a. Turn things upside down deftly and unnoticed with the aid of confederates a plenty from the ranks of the misbegotten bastard lines of England. (perhaps your line was not of that ilk)

Which of these lines was corrupted? What proof have you that they were? Snow came home with 250 British converts, many of them probably from London. Are you suggesting that he brought home some kind of druidic coven that was based in London? What proof have you that such a thing even existed in the 1840s or that any of the people who came home with Snow were involved in it.

I believe Snow was already a SoP before he went to England and did parlay with the London craft. I believe that much of the death on the plains was Druids making a point of how bad they really were so they could have rank. Hinckley's people for one. The bastard caste were the bottom of the barrel, the rank and file. The power pieces and "gods" who sit behind the chessboard were elites. As they are today.

Supplant Christ with doctrine that makes man the focus of the gospel. Exaltation unto Godhood really does that well. This would defeat the real gospel causing an apostasy, a falling away.

As man is God once was
As God is man may become
Lorenzo Snow

You need to read the New Testament more closely, along with Joseph's King Follett Discourse. Furthermore, any Christian knows that God took on the form of a man in Christ, was crucified, and rose to exaltation. The pattern is laid out right there.

Not really sure what you infer. Christ was God before he became man.

4. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped;[/color] (SEE THE COUPLET ABOVE) so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The couplet provides no evidence that Snow either opposed or exalted himself above all that is called God.

The couplet is blasphemy on the face of it. You can read, right?
Just because LDS were seduced by it does not remove the stain.

After THE TEMPLE of God was finished, the Salt Lake Temple, Who was it that took up his residence in that grand house, entertaining family and freinds, showing himself the owner as if he were God??????????
The first president of the Salt Lake Temple was ........
LORENZO SNOW

An interesting reading of the situation, but when did he show himself to be God? Just by residing on the House of the Lord? The Lord shares his house with those who are in the covenant. I fail to see the problem. Thessalonians refers to a person outside of the covenant imposing himself on the sanctuary, like Antiochus IV Epiphanes or Caligula, who respectively defiled or threatened to defile the Temple.

Just the act alone of taking up YOUR residence in the LDS Supreme Temple says it all. With his long white flowing godly beard and giving his grand daughter a tour.Sayig,"here is where I saw the Lord" What crap. Like his pretense at raising the dead in Brigham City. All witchcraft. The man was the quintessetial "angel of light" which all good Satanist master.

The legacy of Lorenzo Snow is that all the doors open to full tithe payers. No discrimination as to who is truly born of God. That is lost and forgotten and the Mormons have moved on!

Just because Snow increased emphasis on the law of the tithe does not mean that he otherwise fundamentally changed the requirements for entering the Lord's House. You need to do better than that.

jHave you ever had to answer the Alma Question: "have ye been spiritually born of God" to get a temple recommend? The Lord commanded no unclean things and he meant none who were not wrought upon and cleansed by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.

I grew up in the East Millcreek Stake where I know personally that many were into Satanism. My own parents whose both lines are British Isles, one a bastard line, practised witchcraft upon me and my two brothers and sister openly until I was seven years old. I have one memory that if true is fully as montrous as Elder Glen Pace believed and concluded to be real. His investigation and his conclusion and he made recommendations that were rebuffed and ignored.

How do you conclude that one of your lines was "bastard"? What does that mean, druidic? If so, what evidence do you have that they were? You didn't like one of the families? And your "one memory"... have you always carried it, or did you retrieve it in therapy? Memories of this kind have been shown to be problematic, to put it politely. I simply do not buy that Satanism was rampant. All of this coincides in time with the national Satanism scare, which turned out to be complete bunk.

My great, great great grandfather was a bastard. I do not think you have read Bishop Glen Pace's memo

[_Trevor]

The LDS mindset of honoring you file leader would not have allowed for a mere "other choice spirits" regard of a past LDS prophet.

Not a terrible argument, and I must confess to being intrigued by his absence. Something was probably off kilter.

I believe Snow was already a SoP before he went to England and did parlay with the London craft. I believe that much of the death on the plains was Druids making a point of how bad they really were so they could have rank. Hinckley's people for one. The bastard caste were the bottom of the barrel, the rank and file. The power pieces and "gods" who sit behind the chessboard were elites. As they are today.

Before he was even an apostle? I doubt he could have qualified as a SoP without a greater witness. And again I ask: what evidence, if any, do you have that Snow was personally involved in witchcraft, the occult, Satanism, or Druidism in London? Or that any one of these British folk were druids? There is much better evidence for the Smith family's involvement in magic, and for hardcore supporters like Rockwell.

Not really sure what you infer. Christ was God before he became man.

As man is, Christ once was,
As Christ is, man may become.

Get it? I think your theological imagination leaves a lot to be desired.

The couplet is blasphemy on the face of it. You can read, right?

Evidently I can read better than you can, and I understand that words can have multiple meanings. You have settled on one narrow reading of a tiny couplet and tried to place the entire responsibility for your meaning on Snow. What about Brigham's Adam-God teachings? Adam was a god who became a man and then ascended to exaltation again. And you have problems with Snow's couplet? Was Brigham a druid too?

Just the act alone of taking up YOUR residence in the LDS Supreme Temple says it all. With his long white flowing godly beard and giving his grand daughter a tour.Sayig,"here is where I saw the Lord" What crap. Like his pretense at raising the dead in Brigham City. All witchcraft. The man was the quintessetial "angel of light" which all good Satanist master.

Naked assertion all the way. You may as well go back to the First Vision and call that crap, for all the evidence you bring to bear on this. How many people were allowed into the Kirtland and Nauvoo temples? The temple was not always so carefully restricted as it is today. Your present understanding seems to be clouding your historical imagination.

The legacy of Lorenzo Snow is that all the doors open to full tithe payers. No discrimination as to who is truly born of God. That is lost and forgotten and the Mormons have moved on!

Have you ever had to answer the Alma Question: "have ye been spiritually born of God" to get a temple recommend? The Lord commanded no unclean things and he meant none who were not wrought upon and cleansed by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.

I believe that the questions are designed to determine whether one professes a testimony, which should amount to the same thing. Now I await your disagreement.

My great, great great grandfather was a bastard. I do not think you have read Bishop Glen Pace's memo

I read it on the Tanners' website. I have heard the bizarre Satanism claims before from friends of friends supposedly affected. You seem to know very little about false memories.

[_Nightlion]

The LDS mindset of honoring you file leader would not have allowed for a mere "other choice spirits" regard of a past LDS prophet.

Not a terrible argument, and I must confess to being intrigued by his absence. Something was probably off kilter.

With a firm grasp of the absolute standard of the gospel it is plain to see that the Church was never on kilter. And then we see it slipping away straw by straw until today the real gospel is not recognized.

The last days of Joseph Smith had him calling for a reformation of the restoration. Sounds like a Southern Baptist sermon tag line.

I believe Snow was already a SoP before he went to England and did parlay with the London craft. I believe that much of the death on the plains was Druids making a point of how bad they really were so they could have rank. Hinckley's people for one. The bastard caste were the bottom of the barrel, the rank and file. The power pieces and "gods" who sit behind the chessboard were elites. As they are today.

Before he was even an apostle? I doubt he could have qualified as a SoP without a greater witness. And again I ask: what evidence, if any, do you have that Snow was personally involved in witchcraft, the occult, Satanism, or Druidism in London? Or that any one of these British folk were druids? There is much better evidence for the Smith family's involvement in magic, and for hardcore supporters like Rockwell.

Not understanding the gospel very well you might infer that the higher up you are in Church office the harder you can fall. Actually there is only one criteria for falling unto perdition. Were you ever spiritually begotten of God, a partaker of his power, and then turn altogether therefrom and hold up Christ to an open shame by shedding innocent blood. Any member of the Church can qualify if they first get the gospel exactly right. by the way none of the present leaders of the LDS Church qualify and so none of them could possible fall that hard.

Not really sure what you infer. Christ was God before he became man.

As man is, Christ once was,
As Christ is, man may become.

Get it? I think your theological imagination leaves a lot to be desired.

Christ was God from before the foundation of the Earth. Man will never be that. There is not mixing of Very God and the men gods who continue the seeds from exaltation to exaltation. Very God does not deal with seeds. Every work that God does is accomplished by the word of his power which are his commandments and by the power of his Spirit. See D&C 29

The couplet is blasphemy on the face of it. You can read, right?

Evidently I can read better than you can, and I understand that words can have multiple meanings. You have settled on one narrow reading of a tiny couplet and tried to place the entire responsibility for your meaning on Snow. What about Brigham's Adam-God teachings? Adam was a god who became a man and then ascended to exaltation again. And you have problems with Snow's couplet? Was Brigham a druid too?

Brigham was struggling to keep afloat the notions he got from Joseph that Adam and Eve were the parents of our spirit bodies. My NEW Mormon THEOLOGY explains all this. It is true that A&E are our spirit body parents before we came into this world. But they are not and never will be Very God.

Just the act alone of taking up YOUR residence in the LDS Supreme Temple says it all. With his long white flowing godly beard and giving his grand daughter a tour.Sayig,"here is where I saw the Lord" What crap. Like his pretense at raising the dead in Brigham City. All witchcraft. The man was the quintessetial "angel of light" which all good Satanist master.

Naked assertion all the way. You may as well go back to the First Vision and call that crap, for all the evidence you bring to bear on this. How many people were allowed into the Kirtland and Nauvoo temples? The temple was not always so carefully restricted as it is today. Your present understanding seems to be clouding your historical imagination.

Lorenzo made the fabulous Salt Lake Temple "HIS" home as if to say, "Thank you people for all your years of hard labor and sacrifice, I will not sit down in my new house." And thus he fulfills prophecy that it might be revealed at some future date, for he got away with it at the time. But now we know that there was a serious falling away and we should address it and fix what broke. If that is not allowed, and it will not be, then step off and do it right somewhere else.

The legacy of Lorenzo Snow is that all the doors open to full tithe payers. No discrimination as to who is truly born of God. That is lost and forgotten and the Mormons have moved on!

Have you ever had to answer the Alma Question: "have ye been spiritually born of God" to get a temple recommend? The Lord commanded no unclean things and he meant none who were not wrought upon and cleansed by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.

I believe that the questions are designed to determine whether one professes a testimony, which should amount to the same thing. Now I await your disagreement.

A testimony is what any man can receive to press them to seek to enter the kingdom of God and do his righteousness. That is to be born again of fire and of the Holy Ghost. IF you fail then the testimony itself cannot make you clean and will not qualify you to enter the temple without the sin of blasphemy, pretending to know the name of the Lord when in fact you do not. It was never given to you by power and put into your inward parts by God.

My great, great great grandfather was a bastard. I do not think you have read Bishop Glen Pace's memo

I read it on the Tanners' website. I have heard the bizarre Satanism claims before from friends of friends supposedly affected. You seem to know very little about false memories.

I have never been in therapy. I have not talked with people about it. I had a dream almost forty years ago that suggested a memory of viciousness that may have happened to me when I was a toddler.

One of the reasons I was always excluded in the East Millcreek area was that they never got me into the craft. The hallmarks of that craft continue with those same people to this day. And I rejected the witchcraft practiced upon me by my parents frustrating their planned programming and scared them off when I was seven years old.

[_Trevor]

With a firm grasp of the absolute standard of the gospel it is plain to see that the Church was never on kilter. And then we see it slipping away straw by straw until today the real gospel is not recognized.

The last days of Joseph Smith had him calling for a reformation of the restoration. Sounds like a Southern Baptist sermon tag line.

I was speaking of something not right between Snow and Joseph F. Smith, not "off kilter" for the entire Church.

Not understanding the gospel very well you might infer that the higher up you are in Church office the harder you can fall. Actually there is only one criteria for falling unto perdition. Were you ever spiritually begotten of God, a partaker of his power, and then turn altogether therefrom and hold up Christ to an open shame by shedding innocent blood. Any member of the Church can qualify if they first get the gospel exactly right. by the way none of the present leaders of the LDS Church qualify and so none of them could possible fall that hard.

Your standard for what it takes to become a son of perdition is nothing I have ever heard before. To sin against the Holy Ghost is deny God when one has a perfect knowledge. How do you know that Snow met even your criteria? The simple answer is that you do not. You have a grudge against people like Hinckley, and so you have constructed this elaborate conspiracy theory laying ultimate responsibility on Snow. But you have precious little evidence outside of one intriguing observation from D&C 138 that there was a problem with Snow.

Christ was God from before the foundation of the Earth. Man will never be that. There is not mixing of Very God and the men gods who continue the seeds from exaltation to exaltation. Very God does not deal with seeds. Every work that God does is accomplished by the word of his power which are his commandments and by the power of his Spirit. See D&C 29.

By the time that Snow invented the couplet, much had changed. As you know, the doctrine of spirit birth took hold. The idea that there was a hard distinction between the nature of God and gods did not exist, nor is it certain to this day that it does. Reference to revelations in 1830 does what exactly? Tell us the understanding of the Church in 1830. You have interesting, idiosyncratic readings of these texts, and that is about it. What you are saying neither is nor ever was established LDS doctrine. I am not buying into your strange theology at all.

Brigham was struggling to keep afloat the notions he got from Joseph that Adam and Eve were the parents of our spirit bodies. My NEW Mormon THEOLOGY explains all this. It is true that A&E are our spirit body parents before we came into this world. But they are not and never will be Very God.

According to you, and the fact that you have constructed this edifice of the New Mormon Theology is not prima facie evidence that your theology is true. Indeed, I find it rather convoluted and bizarre.

Lorenzo made the fabulous Salt Lake Temple "HIS" home as if to say, "Thank you people for all your years of hard labor and sacrifice, I will not sit down in my new house." And thus he fulfills prophecy that it might be revealed at some future date, for he got away with it at the time. But now we know that there was a serious falling away and we should address it and fix what broke. If that is not allowed, and it will not be, then step off and do it right somewhere else.

Let's say, for kicks and giggles, that his taking up residence in the temple was an issue of some concern. When did he ever say "I am God"? Evidence? I still don't see the fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2. You are reaching.

A testimony is what any man can receive to press them to seek to enter the kingdom of God and do his righteousness. That is to be born again of fire and of the Holy Ghost. IF you fail then the testimony itself cannot make you clean and will not qualify you to enter the temple without the sin of blasphemy, pretending to know the name of the Lord when in fact you do not. It was never given to you by power and put into your inward parts by God.

You do not get to make up your own standards for what requirements God demands of people to enter the temple. You have made up your own standard, and now you stand in judgment of everyone who does not meet your standard. It simply does not work this way. Going to the temple is a wonderful way of engaging in the spiritual purification process. It is not an end in itself.

I have never been in therapy. I have not talked with people about it. I had a dream almost forty years ago that suggested a memory of viciousness that may have happened to me when I was a toddler.

One of the reasons I was always excluded in the East Millcreek area was that they never got me into the craft. The hallmarks of that craft continue with those same people to this day. And I rejected the witchcraft practiced upon me by my parents frustrating their planned programming and scared them off when I was seven years old.

You had a dream. A DREAM. And now you conclude that this proves you were Satanically abused by your own family. I feel sorry for your folks, whether alive or dead. That is a horribly irresponsible thing of you to do: to lend so much credence to a single dream at the expense of making your parents out to be monsters. I think it is tragic that human hysteria of this kind claims so many victims and throws attention away from true evil and real crimes. You are the victim of a collective fantasy about Satanic abuse, not actual abuse. It never happened. There is no evidence. Your dream is not evidence, and it should not be deemed such even by you.

[_Nightlion]

With a firm grasp of the absolute standard of the gospel it is plain to see that the Church was never on kilter. And then we see it slipping away straw by straw until today the real gospel is not recognized.

The last days of Joseph Smith had him calling for a reformation of the restoration. Sounds like a Southern Baptist sermon tag line.

I was speaking of something not right between Snow and Joseph F. Smith, not "off kilter" for the entire Church.

Not understanding the gospel very well you might infer that the higher up you are in Church office the harder you can fall. Actually there is only one criteria for falling unto perdition. Were you ever spiritually begotten of God, a partaker of his power, and then turn altogether therefrom and hold up Christ to an open shame by shedding innocent blood. Any member of the Church can qualify if they first get the gospel exactly right. by the way none of the present leaders of the LDS Church qualify and so none of them could possible fall that hard.

Your standard for what it takes to become a son of perdition is nothing I have ever heard before. To sin against the Holy Ghost is deny God when one has a perfect knowledge. How do you know that Snow met even your criteria? The simple answer is that you do not. You have a grudge against people like Hinckley, and so you have constructed this elaborate conspiracy theory laying ultimate responsibility on Snow. But you have precious little evidence outside of one intriguing observation from D&C 138 that there was a problem with Snow.

Christ was God from before the foundation of the Earth. Man will never be that. There is not mixing of Very God and the men gods who continue the seeds from exaltation to exaltation. Very God does not deal with seeds. Every work that God does is accomplished by the word of his power which are his commandments and by the power of his Spirit. See D&C 29.

By the time that Snow invented the couplet, much had changed. As you know, the doctrine of spirit birth took hold. The idea that there was a hard distinction between the nature of God and gods did not exist, nor is it certain to this day that it does. Reference to revelations in 1830 does what exactly? Tell us the understanding of the Church in 1830. You have interesting, idiosyncratic readings of these texts, and that is about it. What you are saying neither is nor ever was established LDS doctrine. I am not buying into your strange theology at all.

Brigham was struggling to keep afloat the notions he got from Joseph that Adam and Eve were the parents of our spirit bodies. My NEW Mormon THEOLOGY explains all this. It is true that A&E are our spirit body parents before we came into this world. But they are not and never will be Very God.

According to you, and the fact that you have constructed this edifice of the New Mormon Theology is not prima facie evidence that your theology is true. Indeed, I find it rather convoluted and bizarre.

Lorenzo made the fabulous Salt Lake Temple "HIS" home as if to say, "Thank you people for all your years of hard labor and sacrifice, I will not sit down in my new house." And thus he fulfills prophecy that it might be revealed at some future date, for he got away with it at the time. But now we know that there was a serious falling away and we should address it and fix what broke. If that is not allowed, and it will not be, then step off and do it right somewhere else.

Let's say, for kicks and giggles, that his taking up residence in the temple was an issue of some concern. When did he ever say "I am God"? Evidence? I still don't see the fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2. You are reaching.

A testimony is what any man can receive to press them to seek to enter the kingdom of God and do his righteousness. That is to be born again of fire and of the Holy Ghost. IF you fail then the testimony itself cannot make you clean and will not qualify you to enter the temple without the sin of blasphemy, pretending to know the name of the Lord when in fact you do not. It was never given to you by power and put into your inward parts by God.

You do not get to make up your own standards for what requirements God demands of people to enter the temple. You have made up your own standard, and now you stand in judgment of everyone who does not meet your standard. It simply does not work this way. Going to the temple is a wonderful way of engaging in the spiritual purification process. It is not an end in itself.

I have never been in therapy. I have not talked with people about it. I had a dream almost forty years ago that suggested a memory of viciousness that may have happened to me when I was a toddler.

One of the reasons I was always excluded in the East Millcreek area was that they never got me into the craft. The hallmarks of that craft continue with those same people to this day. And I rejected the witchcraft practiced upon me by my parents frustrating their planned programming and scared them off when I was seven years old.

You had a dream. A DREAM. And now you conclude that this proves you were Satanically abused by your own family. I feel sorry for your folks, whether alive or dead. That is a horribly irresponsible thing of you to do: to lend so much credence to a single dream at the expense of making your parents out to be monsters. I think it is tragic that human hysteria of this kind claims so many victims and throws attention away from true evil and real crimes. You are the victim of a collective fantasy about Satanic abuse, not actual abuse. It never happened. There is no evidence. Your dream is not evidence, and it should not be deemed such even by you.

I don't have time to set this reply in order. So I will just make a few points.

1. My criteria for son of perdition is spot on. Just because LDS lack understanding is there problem. To know the Lord is what being born again is about. Recreationalist LDS nonthinking nonexperiencing notions count for nothing.
2. 1830 revelation is still good scripture to rightly divide the truth. Ignoring it is arrogant and slipshod.
3.2 thessalonians 2 does not say the man of sin must declare himself to be god, only show himself as if he were god. Like living in the house of God.
3. I do not make any conclusion about my parents from any dream. I lived under their maniacal practice of striving to take appart a child's personality by deliberate and constant abuse. Perfect LDS outwardly.
Imagine four sibblings being screamed at incessantly by a six foot four man:
"I'll beat you to death you little crap"
"I'll snap your neck"
"I'll kill you, I'll kill you
"I'll murder you, you little crap"

and my all time most memorable:
"I'll snap off your arm and beat you to death you little crap"

For mother's part she allowed this and could only look at me with hate. Always, and never a hug, never. Certainly no kiss, ever. Always hate.

The scars and holes remain from that kind of Twisted Nurture always.
Imagine their chagrine as I constantly popped up and was loving and charitable with them and all my friends. I had been visited in my crib by a loving mother figure and steeled against this onslaught. How cool is that! Ooooweeeeoooow

[_Trevor]

I don't have time to set this reply in order. So I will just make a few points.

1. My criteria for son of perdition is spot on. Just because LDS lack understanding is there problem. To know the Lord is what being born again is about. Recreationalist LDS nonthinking nonexperiencing notions count for nothing.

Again, you have created your own standard for something very specific. Unless you can provide me some evidence that your standard is anything more than personal, neither I nor anyone else is obligated in any way to agree with you.

2. 1830 revelation is still good scripture to rightly divide the truth. Ignoring it is arrogant and slipshod.

Ignoring how what comes after it contextualizing it is ignorant and slipshod.

3.2 thessalonians 2 does not say the man of sin must declare himself to be god, only show himself as if he were god. Like living in the house of God.

True, the scripture does not directly say that he declares himself to be God, but...

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

One can fairly interpret this as implying that he would declare himself to be greater than God, either verbally or through other means. You have not demonstrated how it is that Snow did this. Your claim that his residence in the temple is equal to showing himself to be God is tenuous proof at the very, very best. When the scripture was written, the persons who were doing such things were men like Caligula, who threatened to erect a statue of himself in the Jerusalem Temple. Caligula was recognized as a god within the Roman Empire, and the placement of a statue of him in the temple would, in ancient parlance, be "taking up residence" as a god in the sanctuary. This is entirely different from Snow.

3. I do not make any conclusion about my parents from any dream. I lived under their maniacal practice of striving to take appart a child's personality by deliberate and constant abuse.

You have my sincere condolences for an abusive upbringing. I still don't get the part where this demonstrates druidic secret combinations and Satanic ritual abuse. My apologies for being skeptical, but those are serious accusations that demand substantive proof, if I am to believe them.

[_moksha]

Nightlion as Brigham Young said, "If Ye be a comely chicken then get Thee to Mine Beehive House hence".
- Journal of Discourses, 19th Century, to be transcribed pile.

[_Nightlion]

I don't have time to set this reply in order. So I will just make a few points.

1. My criteria for son of perdition is spot on. Just because LDS lack understanding is there problem. To know the Lord is what being born again is about. Recreationalist LDS nonthinking nonexperiencing notions count for nothing.

Again, you have created your own standard for something very specific. Unless you can provide me some evidence that your standard is anything more than personal, neither I nor anyone else is obligated in any way to agree with you.

2. 1830 revelation is still good scripture to rightly divide the truth. Ignoring it is arrogant and slipshod.

Ignoring how what comes after it contextualizing it is ignorant and slipshod.

3.2 thessalonians 2 does not say the man of sin must declare himself to be god, only show himself as if he were god. Like living in the house of God.

True, the scripture does not directly say that he declares himself to be God, but...

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

One can fairly interpret this as implying that he would declare himself to be greater than God, either verbally or through other means. You have not demonstrated how it is that Snow did this. Your claim that his residence in the temple is equal to showing himself to be God is tenuous proof at the very, very best. When the scripture was written, the persons who were doing such things were men like Caligula, who threatened to erect a statue of himself in the Jerusalem Temple. Caligula was recognized as a god within the Roman Empire, and the placement of a statue of him in the temple would, in ancient parlance, be "taking up residence" as a god in the sanctuary. This is entirely different from Snow.

3. I do not make any conclusion about my parents from any dream. I lived under their maniacal practice of striving to take appart a child's personality by deliberate and constant abuse.

You have my sincere condolences for an abusive upbringing. I still don't get the part where this demonstrates druidic secret combinations and Satanic ritual abuse. My apologies for being skeptical, but those are serious accusations that demand substantive proof, if I am to believe them.

I am once again out of time. But read D&C 76 about those who are made partakers and fall away. If you experience the Baptism of Fire and of the Holy Ghost then you would know how serious it would be to then fight against God.

It only takes one word of scripture to validate a doctrine. So says Joseph Smith. Contexualizing is a means to muddle.

[_Trevor]

Contexualizing is a means to muddle.

Contextualizing is a means to understanding the part in relation to the whole. Those who neglect to understand this do so at their own peril.

[_Nightlion]

Contexualizing is a means to muddle.

Contextualizing is a means to understanding the part in relation to the whole. Those who neglect to understand this do so at their own peril.

I apologize that I have not given you the time needed. There were a couple of things I thought to respond yet.

]According to you, and the fact that you have constructed this edifice of the New Mormon Theology is not prima facie evidence that your theology is true. Indeed, I find it rather convoluted and bizarre.

Convoluted would mean just made up, off the cuff, out of the ruff, so to say. Nothing could be more wrong. I spent four years full time at my own expense sitting in the LDS Church Historical Library combing through old writings and seeking to resolve the theological mess that was the present LDS (1980) understanding of their scripture. The Mormon bashers where just beginning to become more bold.

It was embarrassing that the LDS could not answer soundly the silly accusations thrown at them. I was determined to fix the problem. I spent four years and more. I have an encyclopedic mind of scripture that can piece together from here and there links that were never made before. The answer was a radical departure from LDS norms.

The scriptures fail to teach people anything when they do not possess the same Spirit and power that they were written by. It takes one such to unfold them rightly. Joseph Smith was more about restoring the scriptures rather than a complete unfolding of them.

Nothing convoluted in what I accomplished. That was exactly what I was trying to solve, the convoluted LDS recreational, nonthinking, noninspired interpretations they sported. Everything is based solidly upon LDS standard works. For example: The Book of Mormon says a few times and said many more times before they were removed that: Jesus Christ is the Very Eternal Father. Abinadi was killed for saying that God would come into the world and be killed by men.

There is no LDS answer for this common declaration of the Book of Mormon. My theology handles it profoundly and adds immeasurably to the understanding of who Christ is in fact. And that is tied into several scriptures including the Bible's John chapter 6 where Christ says astonishing things about himself.


Lorenzo Snow was just one of those things that fell out on the table in front of me. What could I do? There it was and I say solidly supported. Perhaps my Druid conclusions are the best I can do without any sources and have to remain convoluted. They are the Secret Nation of Satan and purposely memorize all their records and instructions. No traces left to discover them by. How very well managed. Hmmm?

And all in their company would be first and adamant to deny all. Hmm?