Rational justification for Polygamy?

[_Yoda]

Horse pucky. Christ fulfilled the Law... all of it. The ancient Isrealites had a lot of other nondoctrinal cultural practices that weren't restored, so that argument is really lame and easily punctured.

C'mon, Paul. You can do better than that.

Harmony,

Christ fulfilled the Law of Moses – the various rites, ordinances, and rituals that pertain to sacrifice. You know as well as I do that blessed plural marriage was before the law of Moses. There are no teachings in the scriptures that say Christ fulfilled (done away) the law of marriage as practiced by the ancients, notably, Abraham.

Did I do better that time?



Paul O

Wait a minute....rituals pertaining to sacrifice were part of the Abrahamic covenant. God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son, Issac. He stopped him before the sacrifice was complete, stating that the exercise was an object lesson symbolizing the sacrifice of Christ.

Why would Christ's crucifixion and resurrection only fulfill a portion of Abraham's law?

This is where I have always found a HUGE disconnect. Take a look at the following scriptures, Paul:

3 Nephi 15:9
9 Behold, I am the (a)law, and the light. Look unto me, and endure to the end, and ye shall live; for unto him that endureth to the end will I give eternal life.

Take a look at the cross-reference for law:

2 Nephi 26:1
And after Christ shall have risen from the dead he shall show himself unto you, my children, and my beloved brethren; and the words which he shall speak unto you shall be the law which ye shall do.

Why the blatant disconnect? This, coupled with the graphic details of how the hearts of God's daughters were broken by polygamy in Jacob 2 leads me to believe that there has been some gross misrepresentation concerning polygamy from the beginning.

[_Yoda]

God told us to do it.

That's just it, Nehor.

I don't think He really did.
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[_Paul Osborne]

I will have to think about this later. I'm in the chat room with everyone.

Paul O

[_bcspace]

In reading and listening to others about Polygamy in the LDS Church I can't come up with any rational or reasonable reason it was practiced.
As a commandment it falls off when we see Joseph Smith starting the practice before he has the authority to do so.

The excuse of 'too many women' falls apart when one looks at the population figures.

Was there any rational and reasonable reason for polygamy as practiced by the early LDS?

I've never seen the Jacob 2:30 reason given as indicative of "too many women". Rather I see it exactly as it says. To "raise up seed unto me". In other words, more children raised LDS.

I certainly don't believe it's the only reason and I certainly don't believe all the reasons have been or must be given. Therefore "too many women" might in some cases be a legitimate reason. Related to that is the taking care of widows and singles.

As to multiple sealings as opposed to plural marriages, I don't know what the reason(s) might be.

[_Some Schmo]

So you ask yourself, "How can I nail as many women and young girls as possible and still maintain the facade of being a spiritual man?" Why, polygamy, of course! That would be the most rational justification for it.

If he didn't care about appearing all prophet-like, the multiple marriages would have been irrational and unjustified. He could have just gone around nailing women and leaving them (Humpty Dumpty, if you will). But he had his congregation to think about, and so the old "angel with a flaming sword made me do it" trick had to be employed.

Good thing he wasn't trying this in the 70's and 80's. He'd be the one sporting a flaming sword, eventually.

[_marg]

Marg,

Can you tell me what the difference is, that you believe, between Joseph Smith and Warren Jeffs when it came to polygamy????

Joseph Smith lived at a time in which there were no laws against polygamy, in which there were many religious groups starting up and he was managing his church with new visionary ideas. I think what I read Brigham Young note, that women are more easily converted than men, J. Smith saw as an opportunity. He himself didn't practice polygamy, he simply had sex with many women. But he encouraged others to practice polygamy and in that way if it caught on and was accepted it would not only increase the number of converts but potential children from those polygamous relationships. At some point in the future the system as the children become adults and if members are part of a commune the system will break down with there not being enough females. But if practiced outside of a commune there is potential to increase converts and members (born into the system) significantly.

Warren Jeffs practices polygamy as part of a commune, and probably does so because that is part of his religious belief system which he accepts on faith and I'm sure as well does so for sexual interest and pleasure. The same benefit of increasing members #'s would not apply to an established commune which is a closed system of people with few added converts as it would to a newly forming religious group or to a group which practices polygamy outside a commune situation.

[_marg]

The point, marg, is that all discussions surrounding justifying polygamy start and end with Joseph, and have nothing to do with Brigham. Brigham was not even in the picture when polygamy was started. So bringing up anything Brigham said when discussing the justification for polygamy, which is this thread's subject, is both immaterial and off topic. Brigham was simply riding Joseph's coattails when he tried his own hand at justifying the restoration of the abomination.

If the topic is continuing polygamy, or expanding polygamy, or otherwise fiddling with polygamy, then you can bring up Brigham. But Brigham had nothing to do with the supposed restoration of polygamy, and thus is not part of the justification discussion.

Please try to keep up.

The question askede

Was there any rational and reasonable reason for polygamy as practiced by the early LDS?

The question does not ask whether Smith was morally justified in starting polygamy, or anyone else was justified..it asks if one can think of a rational reason it might have been practiced. And no Harmony all discussion regarding polygamy does not start and end with Joseph. However, I did start with Joseph, that is he too would have appreciated women are more easily converted to religious groups than men. The benefit of polygamy is that it capitalizes on that fact, enables excess converted women to have husbands and keeps them in Mormonism plus there are the benefits of additional converts by children born into the church. The rational justification boils down to the benefits of keeping women converts in the church and the consequent increase in membership was perceived to outweigh costs as long as compliance was given.

[_Pokatator]

God told us to do it.

Are you indicating another one of your visions?

If so, why aren't you practicing it?

[_The Nehor]

God told us to do it.

That's just it, Nehor.

I don't think He really did.
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I disrespectfully disagree.

[_The Nehor]

God told us to do it.

Are you indicating another one of your visions?

If so, why aren't you practicing it?

Being told that something was commanded but stopped is not a good reason to practice it.