Why LDS Mormons are not Christian.

[_Jersey Girl]

I call things as I see them, as far as the Church is concerned. I do not discount the racist past of the Church. It was flat-out wrong. The practice of polygamy was flat-out wrong.

This statement contradicts the next.

No, it doesn't contradict it. Let's look at her statements:

But to claim that I call myself a Christian because I am too embarrassed to call myself a Mormon is also wrong. I am not embarrassed to be associated with the Mormon Church

How is it contradictory to criticize the church and to say that one is not embarrassed to call themselves Mormon or be associated with the Mormon Church?

Did Liz issue the priesthood ban on blacks?
Did Liz issue the commandment for polygamy?

Why should someone who discerns that these two doctrines were wrong, be embarrassed by the actions of others? She disagrees, she says so.

There is nothing to be embarrassed about in speaking one's mind.

[_Jersey Girl]

I am not denying that there are differences between the Mormon Church and what can be referred to as "mainstream" Christianity, but to state that Mormons do not worship Christ, or that we think of Christ as "just another God" is completely inaccurate.

Not in my opinion. When Joseph Smith claimed he was more accomplished than Jesus Christ, he was placing Jesus Christ lower than himself.

Joseph Smith's claim that he kept the church together (etc) has nothing to do with elevating himself to godhood.

The earthly Christian church has grown from it's inception from a handful of converts to zillions worldwide. Paul is credited with early growth.

Is the fact that Paul is credited with the early growth of the Christian church a brag or is it historical fact?

Does it raise Paul above Christ?

[_Jersey Girl]

And, as I have pointed out, the Joseph Smith version of Jesus Christ is not the same as it is outside of Mormonism.

Let's talk about this, thews. How is the Joseph Smith version of Jesus Christ different from that outside of Mormonism? Could you supply a list of differences for discussion?

[_thews]

Joseph Smith's claim that he kept the church together (etc) has nothing to do with elevating himself to godhood.

That's your opinion (not a fact). Joseph Smith claiming he was more accomplished than Jesus Christ would then assume God was not Jesus Christ, which was my point. If Jesus is God in man (Christian version of Jesus Christ), then Joseph Smith boasting he was more accomplished than God doesn't make sense, but it does if Jesus Christ is just another God, which was my point.

The earthly Christian church has grown from it's inception from a handful of converts to zillions worldwide. Paul is credited with early growth.

Is the fact that Paul is credited with the early growth of the Christian church a brag or is it historical fact?

Does it raise Paul above Christ?

This is a typical Mormon parallel argument to shift focus from one argument to the next... we aren't talking about Paul. While we are talking about Christianity and what it encompasses, shifting the argument to avoid what Joseph Smith was boasting about and place it elsewhere is how Mormons are taught to think.

If you're attempting to back up your friend, I don't think she needs it... an opinion is just that, and we all have a right to our own.

[_beastie]

Jersey Girl,

I'm glad to see you back on the thread. Would you answer this question for me?

Do you believe that Mormons who strictly adhere to their own theology will be accepted into Heaven? Will a Mormon who believes that Jesus is the Christ, and accepts Jesus as his/her savior, but believes in LDS eternal progression, get into Heaven?

[_thews]

And, as I have pointed out, the Joseph Smith version of Jesus Christ is not the same as it is outside of Mormonism.

Let's talk about this, thews. How is the Joseph Smith version of Jesus Christ different from that outside of Mormonism? Could you supply a list of differences for discussion?

Wow... yer on a roll. OK:

1) Jesus Christ is God in man to a Christian, not "a" God per Joseph Smith.
2) Jesus Christ is not the brother of Satan.
3) Joseph Smith doesn't have jack to do with salvation, so he has no right to promise salvation to the parents of the little girls he convinced to "give" him their daughters. If judgement is God's, Joseph Smith isn't a God (the point).
4) Jesus Christ and God the father are not "two separate and distinct personges" per Joseph Smith.

Is that enough?

[_Jersey Girl]

Jersey Girl,

I'm glad to see you back on the thread. Would you answer this question for me?

Do you believe that Mormons who strictly adhere to their own theology will be accepted into Heaven? Will a Mormon who believes that Jesus is the Christ, and accepts Jesus as his/her savior, but believes in LDS eternal progression, get into Heaven?

Yes, I believe that.

[_Jersey Girl]

Wow... yer on a roll.

No, I'm being efficient, thews. I've attempted to separate out what could be considered sub topics from your post.

[_Jersey Girl]

beastie,

Do you have a convenient way to pull up the "the Saints never left me yet" quote from Joseph Smith on your computer? I was just wondering if you have it easily available in context?

If not, I will google my little heart out to find a clean quote of that since thews has not seen fit to supply one.

[_Jersey Girl]

The earthly Christian church has grown from it's inception from a handful of converts to zillions worldwide. Paul is credited with early growth.

Is the fact that Paul is credited with the early growth of the Christian church a brag or is it historical fact?

Does it raise Paul above Christ?

This is a typical Mormon parallel argument to shift focus from one argument to the next... we aren't talking about Paul.

It's not a "typical Mormon parallel", it's a valid parallel. We're talking about Mormonism vs Christianity. If it's valid to discuss Joseph Smith, you cannot deny parallels regarding Paul when they are intended to examine your rationale.

Now, please answer the questions that I posed to you above.

While we are talking about Christianity and what it encompasses, shifting the argument to avoid what Joseph Smith was boasting about and place it elsewhere is how Mormons are taught to think.

I haven't shifted the argument to "avoid what Joseph Smith was boasting about". I'm asking you to discuss rationale.

If you're attempting to back up your friend, I don't think she needs it... an opinion is just that, and we all have a right to our own.

I'm not backing up a friend. I'm challenging your opinion.

Please answer the questions that I have posed to you above regarding Paul.