Joseph Smith Megathread

[_Simon Belmont]

Simon,
Your logic in inherently flawed as you continue to ignore everything that doesn’t bode well to Joseph Smith being a prophet of God. When it comes to polygamy and Joseph Smith having sex with his many wives, you claim that “we just don’t know”

I also claimed it was likely. Read the thread.

when there’s overwhelming evidence to include the Sarah Ann Whitney letter where Joseph Smith was obviously cheating on Emma behind her back.

Again, a misrepresentation and a cherry-picking of things in the letter. Let us not forget that the letter was addressed as such:

Dear, and Beloved, Brother and Sister, Whitney and &c.—

Do you see Sarah Ann's name in there? I do not. "&c-" means, "etc." Some secret cheating lover letter.

Then, he reaffirms who the letter is for:

I take this oppertunity to communi[c]ate, some of my feelings, privetely at this time, which I want you three Eternaly to keep in your own bosams.

What a cynical letter!

Using your argument regarding the evidence, consider the following facts:
1) Joseph Smith found his first seer stone using the green seer stone of Sally Chase, a known necromancer.

Joseph Smith found a few seer stones. So what?

2) Joseph Smith using his seer stones before the supposed angels visited him to “see” treasure and treasure guardians moving the treasure beneath the ground when it wasn’t found.

Joseph used the first seer stone to find the second seer stone.
Joseph's family believed in folk magic, as was common in the day. Why is this an issue?

3) After the lost 116 pages were supposedly stolen by Satan’s minions, the Nephite Interpreters/Urim and Thummim were taken back as part of the punishment, leaving only Joseph Smith seer stones which he used along with his stove-pipe hat. The Book of Commandments says nothing of the U&T, yet The D&C 10:1 inserts an intentionally vague reference to the U&T in 1833, or three years after the Book of Mormon was written.

Yup, Joseph clarified some things before publishing the D&C, again, so what?

4) The letter to Sarah Ann Whitney by Joseph Smith clearly dictates the only condition it is not safe is if Emma was there. As a supposed prophet of God, this would mean that Joseph Smith was cheating on his wife knowing God was watching his every move.

Already addressed. This letter is benign, and not the sinister thing you imagine it to be.

5) The Book of Abraham translations are wrong and do not depict anything about Abraham, but their intent was to provide the mummy that they were inserted into passages from the book of the dead.

Yup, the papyri was a catalyst. Again, so what? God doesn't need a crib sheet.

6) The Book of Mormon is a myth

LOL. Nice argument. Here is my argument: No, it isn't.

and there isn’t one single artifact anywhere on the planet to support its historicity, even though we know where Zelph was found. If Zelph was indeed slain in battle, there would be obvious artifacts to support it.

Really? You need to read more about it. The Maxwell Institute has many articles on this, as well as Jeff Lindsay'ssite. But you, of course, would never take the time to actually examine the available evidence. Instead you recite old anti-Mormon misrepresentations.

7) Joseph Smith Jupiter talisman along with all the other “folk” magic he believed in is not Christian in any way shape or form, and neither is the Masonic ceremonies which are clearly a part of Mormonism.

There is insufficient evidence that he owned a Jupiter Talisman. Even if he did, we cannot know what it meant to him. I, for example, own a Widow's Mite coin. I think it is interesting, and has some historic significance to me.

Freemasonry borrowed much from early Christianity. You really should read more, it is good for you.

In considering the above 7 facts, what does logic dictate?

That Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and that he restored the original Church to the Earth.

[_Willy Law]

[

Joseph Smith found a few seer stones. So what?

2) Joseph Smith using his seer stones before the supposed angels visited him to “see” treasure and treasure guardians moving the treasure beneath the ground when it wasn’t found.

Joseph used the first seer stone to find the second seer stone.
Joseph's family believed in folk magic, as was common in the day. Why is this an issue?

Do you realize how many times you have dismissed issues as not important or not an issue, that are completely not in harmony with what we were taught growing up?
If these things are not an issue and no problem then why are they hidden from us? Why was I lied to my entire life?

[_Simon Belmont]

Do you realize how many times you have dismissed issues as not important or not an issue, that are completely not in harmony with what we were taught growing up?
If these things are not an issue and no problem then why are they hidden from us? Why was I lied to my entire life?

They are far from hidden. They are in the official History of the Church. Some are in the Joseph Smith History, and others are written of by LDS authors.

One just has to quit existing in the darkness and actually read and learn stuff for themselves. Humanity could never progress if we only relied on what we learned in a classroom.

[_Willy Law]

One just has to quit existing in the darkness and actually read and learn stuff for themselves. Humanity could never progress if we only relied on what we learned in a classroom.

Ah, so you are taking the ever popular blame the lazy member approach.

Stay Classy Simon Belmont

[_Simon Belmont]

One just has to quit existing in the darkness and actually read and learn stuff for themselves. Humanity could never progress if we only relied on what we learned in a classroom.

Ah, so you are taking the ever popular blame the lazy member approach.

Stay Classy Simon Belmont

Willy Law,

I am going to give you a small quiz. Let us see what the outcome is.

Please choose the most correct answer:

1. Who is responsible for the choices I make?

a. My mother
b. My father
c. Myself
d. The tooth-fairy
e. My ecclesiastical leaders

2. Who is responsible for my education?

a. My mother
b. My father
c. Myself
d. The tooth-fairy
e. My ecclesiastical leaders

3. Who is responsible for my personal growth, knowledge, and spirituality?

a. My mother
b. My father
c. Myself
d. The tooth-fairy
e. My ecclesiastical leaders

[Guest]

I am going to give you a small quiz. Let us see what the outcome is.

Please choose the most correct answers:

1. Who is responsible for your being raised a Mormon?

a. My mother
b. My father
c. Myself
d. Casper the Mormon Holy Ghost®
e. My ecclesiastical leaders

2. Who is responsible for you being an RM?

a. My mother
b. My father
c. Myself
d. Casper the Mormon Holy Ghost®
e. My horny 17 year old Laurel girlfriend

3. Who is responsible for you getting married in the Mormon temple?

a. My mother
b. My father
c. Myself
d. Casper the Mormon Holy Ghost®
e. My horny TBM 19 girlfriend

4. Who is responsible for foisting Mormonism on your children?

a. My mother
b. My father
c. Myself
d. Casper the Mormon Holy Ghost®
e. My demanding TBM thirty-something wife

[Guest]

Every member, at one time or another is a convert. Both those who have been born into the faith, and those who have not must, at some point in their lives, take Moroni's promise and be truly converted.

So ah, ahem, a witness of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon is it huh? 'Cause that means what? That the LDS Church is true and its leadership are true prophets and apostles and they administer the gospel of Jesus Christ in a proper and acceptable manner which God owns and will verify by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost?

Oh, wait. That last bit about the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost needs to be amended to that of a spiritual license, granted unto the true children of God, born into this world with a divine nature, who are free to forebear an actual gospel event in favor of the esteemed right to lengthen out the days of their repentance over the entirety of their life in imperceptible degrees of repentance, that will accrue unto the same net result after one is dead and gone.

TRAMP, TRAMP, TRAMP, can anyone else hear the trampling upon the Holy One of Israel? It is called apostasy.

[_Simon Belmont]

I am going to give you a small quiz. Let us see what the outcome is.

Please choose the most correct answers:

1. Who is responsible for your being raised a Mormon?

a. My mother
b. My father
c. Myself
d. Casper the Mormon Holy Ghost®
e. My ecclesiastical leaders

C.

2. Who is responsible for you being an RM?

a. My mother
b. My father
c. Myself
d. Casper the Mormon Holy Ghost®
e. My ecclesiastical leaders

C.

3. Who is responsible for you getting married in the Mormon temple?

a. My mother
b. My father
c. Myself
d. Casper the Mormon Holy Ghost®
e. My horny TBM 19 girlfriend

C.

4. Who is responsible for foisting Mormonism on your children?

a. My mother
b. My father
c. Myself
d. Casper the Mormon Holy Ghost®
e. My demanding TBM thirty-something wife

None of the above. Nothing was "foisted."

[_Willy Law]

Based on your smart-ass response I am assuming you believe that it was my responsibility to not take what my primary, YM and sunday school teachers taught me as truth? It was my responsibility as a 17 year old in the 80's outside of Utah to find early church documents? Where again was a 17 year old boy in the NW in the 80's suppose to find this information you say was not hidden from me by the church?

If you want to try and explain away these issues as not important that's fine, but you are showing yourself as the douche you truly are for trying to blame those of us that trusted in our church leaders and were blindsided by the true church.
As one who would like to see the church exposed I would urge you to continue blaming those of us who feel blindsided by true church history. I have read account after account of people leaving the church and it is insensitive, ignorant, apologists like yourself that help shove them out the door of the church. Bravo.

And to answer your asinine questions, I take full responsibility for allowing myself to be lied to by the church I thought I could trust. Believe me it won't happen again. I am now skeptical of every statement made by any church authority.

[_Themis]

I am going to give you a small quiz. Let us see what the outcome is.

Responsibility really does lie on all parties here. leaders and parents are responsible, more so in ones earlier years. As one grows they get to take more of the responsibility on themselves, which is why many end up not believing any more, but they can rightly put some of the blame on their parents and religious leaders for past beliefs, decisions, behaviors, and events that may have occurred.