Does anyone feel used when religion pulls your heartstrings?

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_wenglund
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Re: Does anyone feel used when religion pulls your heartstrings?

Post by _wenglund »

Hades wrote:If the Holy Ghost will tell you the truth of all things, why don't Mormons cure cancer? Science cured smallpox. How did religion do with that one?


We have a cure for spiritual cancer. Since you seem ravaged by that desease, perhaps you should consider treatment.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-
"Why should I care about being consistent?" --Mister Scratch (MD, '08)
_Hades
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Re: Does anyone feel used when religion pulls your heartstrings?

Post by _Hades »

wenglund wrote:We have a cure for spiritual cancer. Since you seem ravaged by that desease, perhaps you should consider treatment.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Please outline the cure for spiritual cancer for me. I didn't know I had it. What are the symptoms?
I'm the apostate your bishop warned you about.
_honorentheos
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Re: Does anyone feel used when religion pulls your heartstrings?

Post by _honorentheos »

Zeez -

Is this an example of what you are talking about? -

The day school was out at the beginning of each summer, our family went to our ranch in Wyoming. It was there with my parents and brothers and sisters, and a few cousins mixed in, that I learned about family loyalty; love and concern; birth and death; that one must finish a job once it is started; and, to quote my father, “There are only two things important—the family and the Church.”

One year my father was waiting for us as we arrived. He said he had a big job for my brother Clay and me to do that summer. I was about twelve at the time, and my brother was two years older. Pointing to the field by the side of the house, my father said, “Do you see all of these lambs in that field? I’ll share the money we get for the ones you raise when we sell them in the fall.” Well, we were excited. Not only did we have a significant job to do, but we were going to be rich! There were a lot of lambs in that field—about 350 of them. And all we had to do was feed them.

However, there was one thing that my father hadn’t mentioned. None of the lambs had mothers. Just after shearing, there was a violent storm that chilled the newly shorn sheep. Dad lost a thousand ewes that year. The mothers of our lambs were among them.

To feed one or two baby animals is one thing, but to feed 350 is something else! It was hard. There was plenty of grass, but the lambs couldn’t eat the grass. They didn’t have teeth. They needed milk. So we made some long, V-shaped feeding troughs out of some boards. Then we got a great big tin washtub, ground up some grain, and added milk to make a thin mash. While my brother poured the mash into the troughs, I rounded up the lambs, herded them to the troughs, and said, “Eat!” Well, they just stood there looking at me. Although they were hungry and there was food in front of them, they still wouldn’t eat. No one had taught them to drink milk out of a trough. So I tried pushing them toward the troughs. Do you know what happens when you try to push sheep? They run the other way. And when you lose one, you could lose them all because others will follow. That’s the way with sheep.

We tried lining up the lambs along the troughs and pushing their noses down in the milk, hoping they’d get a taste and want some more. We tried wiggling our fingers in the milk to get them to suck on our fingers. Some of them would drink, but most of them ran away.

Many of the lambs were slowly starving to death. The only way we could be sure they were being fed was to pick them up in our arms, two at a time, and feed them like babies.

And then there were the coyotes. At night the coyotes would sit up on the hill, and they’d howl. The next morning we would see the results of their night’s work, and we would have two or three more lambs to bury. The coyotes would sneak up on the lambs, scatter the herd, and then pick out the ones they wanted and go after them. The first were those that were weak or separated from the flock. Often in the night when the coyotes came and the lambs were restless, my dad would take out his rifle and shoot in the air to scare them away. We felt secure when my dad was home because we knew our lambs were safe when he was there to watch over them.

Clay and I soon forgot about being rich. All we wanted to do was save our lambs. The hardest part was seeing them die. Every morning we would find five, seven, ten lambs that had died during the night. Some the coyotes got, and others starved to death surrounded by food they couldn’t or wouldn’t eat.

Part of our job was to gather up the dead lambs and help dispose of them. I got used to that, and it really wasn’t so bad until I named one of the lambs. It was an awkward little thing with a black spot on its nose. It was always under my feet, and it knew my voice. I loved my lamb. It was one I held in my arms and fed with a bottle like a baby.

One morning my lamb didn’t come when I called. I found it later that day under the willows by the creek. It was dead. With tears streaming down my face, I picked up my lamb and went to find my father. Looking up at him, I said, “Dad, isn’t there someone who can help us feed our lambs?”

After a long moment he said, “Jayne, once a long, long time ago, someone else said almost those same words. He said, ‘Feed my lambs. … Feed my sheep. … Feed my sheep.’” (John 21:15–17.) Dad put his arms around me and let me cry for a time, then went with me to bury my lamb.

It wasn’t until many years later that I fully realized the meaning of my father’s words. I was pondering the scripture in Moses that says, “For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of [all mankind].” (Moses 1:39.) As I thought about the mission of the Savior, I remembered the summer of the lambs, and, for a few brief moments, I thought I could sense how the Savior must feel with so many lambs to feed, so many souls to save. And I knew in my heart that he needed my help.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_wenglund
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Re: Does anyone feel used when religion pulls your heartstrings?

Post by _wenglund »

Hades wrote:Please outline the cure for spiritual cancer for me.


It is outlined in the missionary discussions.

I didn't know I had it. What are the symptoms?


One of the symptoms is to so not understand the purpose of this life and the purpose of the restored gospel as to question why Mormon's don't cure cancer.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-
"Why should I care about being consistent?" --Mister Scratch (MD, '08)
_Themis
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Re: Does anyone feel used when religion pulls your heartstrings?

Post by _Themis »

Sethbag wrote:
Boyd K. Packer himself said that emotion and "the Spirit" are so closely linked that we often mistake one for the other. I can't agree with him, because I am convinced that it's all emotion and other psychological phenomena (eg: euphoric states), and there's no "Spirit" at all! But even within the Mormon paradigm, Packer admits people often confuse the two. So how, other than what I read recently on MDD "when you feel the spirit, you just know", can one reliably differentiate between the two?


SO if the spirit is so closely linked that we have difficulty distinguishing between the two, then how does one know they are different. No one has any idea of what their body or mind are capable of producing. I doubt anyone has experienced all the feeling, emotions and intensities that can be produced. Add our thoughts and such and it gets very complicated.

Zee pulling our heartstrings has been going on for thousands of years. It is one of the great motivators, and can be easily used to manipulate people, just like many religions do including the LDS. I was manipulated and helped manipulate many others into believing the emotional experiences I helped to create were the HG telling them the church, Book of Mormon, Joseph as prophet were true. Oh well, at least I understand better now.
42
_Ray A

Re: Does anyone feel used when religion pulls your heartstrings?

Post by _Ray A »

wenglund wrote:We have a cure for spiritual cancer. Since you seem ravaged by that desease, perhaps you should consider treatment.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Unnecessary, and uncalled for. Don't assume that people who disagree with you are necessarily in the "employ of Satan". If you want your heavenly "ledger" of transgressions forgiven, then be restrained in your judgment of others.
_ludwigm
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Re: Does anyone feel used when religion pulls your heartstrings?

Post by _ludwigm »

Blixa wrote: I was always a total bookworm
As I am. This is why I like You here.

Blixa wrote:... like the Illiad and Jane Eyre ... when I read T.S. Eliot or James Joyce ...
You may be European. In 3/4 part.

Blixa wrote:There was never anything in the Mormon narrative that was as compelling to me as "literature."
This is one thing why I didn't become a member after six year investigation.

Blixa wrote:In church I always felt I was being spoken to as a child, even when I was an adult.
Another thing to not become a member.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_zeezrom
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Re: Does anyone feel used when religion pulls your heartstrings?

Post by _zeezrom »

Blixa wrote:I know you are having fun discovering things outside of Mormonism, now, zeez. But, to tell the truth, I'm having a lot of fun discovering things in it: of course the best parts are those that seem to have been correlated out of LDS cultural memory. But there is more in heaven and earth than is dreamed of in the COB; and some of that is the bristly and complicated history of Mormonism itself.

(The next time I visit Utah I promise to take you and Mrs. zeez to my spiritual center. I will baptize you near where the wild horses graze and the owls and pelicans fly.)

lol, Blixa your spiritual center sounds like paradise. I look forward to the day I can see Mormonism the way you do. My roots are deep right here in this very town and the guy who started it all (my polygamist ancestor) was as grisley as you can get. I assure you, he would have been utterly baffled at Monson and Bednar's attempt to inspire.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_zeezrom
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Re: Does anyone feel used when religion pulls your heartstrings?

Post by _zeezrom »

Honor,

Where did that quote come from? It sounds familiar to me.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Does anyone feel used when religion pulls your heartstrings?

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

wenglund wrote:
Hades wrote:If the Holy Ghost will tell you the truth of all things, why don't Mormons cure cancer? Science cured smallpox. How did religion do with that one?


We have a cure for spiritual cancer. Since you seem ravaged by that desease, perhaps you should consider treatment.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Image ?
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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