How To Spot an Anti-Mormon Book

[_The Nehor]

Now, if the Great Flood was local how did Noah get from Missouri to the Middle East? Ah, but that is a different thread.

What makes you think Noah lived near where the Garden was? We are talking about over a thousand year gap between Adam's fall and the flood. I'm pretty sure I'm not living where my ancestors were about 1500 years ago.

[_NorthboundZax]

Um... just as I thought. Some apostates never understood Church doctrine.

Official church doctrine:

The earth is 6000 years old
Adam and Eve were created by god in the Garden of Eden
The flood happened literally and covered the whole earth
Native Americans are descended, in part (formerly wholly), from Hebrews
Stars get their power from other stars
Faith is a positive attribute

All directly contradicted by those texts.

If we consider doctrine as "what is taught and believed", rather than either canonized or most widely taught, Simon's point should be considered.

The earth is 6000 years old: Canonized in scripture, but teachings have included both emphatic yes and occasional wishy-washy statements to accommodate those who insist on considering old Earth as determined by science (e.g., Widtsoe & Eyring)

Adam and Eve were created by god in the Garden of Eden: Canonized in temple ceremony, but teachings include both emphatic yes and occasional wishy-washy statements to allow for pre-adamites (e.g., Widtsoe, Talmage, & Eyring)

The flood happened literally and covered the whole earth: Canonized in all four books of scripture and widely taught in manuals, but local flood beliefs are argued as OK by FAIR/FARMS once we realize that part of scripture is just hyperbole turned to myth*. (not aware of any church publication that allows for local flood).

Native Americans are descended, in part (formerly wholly), from Hebrews: Canonized in Book of Mormon, but more wishy-washy Book of Mormon heading now allows for fraction of Native Americans descended from Hebrews to range: 0 < f <= 1

Stars get their power from other stars: Canonized in scripture but no one really believes or teaches this anymore

Faith is a positive attribute: Canonized and taught, but ummmm ........ really silly when the Jehova's Witnesses fall back on it.

*this is not allowed for other parts of scripture, like say the resurrection or the existence of Nephi

[_Themis]

What makes you think Noah lived near where the Garden was? We are talking about over a thousand year gap between Adam's fall and the flood. I'm pretty sure I'm not living where my ancestors were about 1500 years ago.

The lengths people go to delude themselves in order to maintain belief. :)

[_Buffalo]

Now, if the Great Flood was local how did Noah get from Missouri to the Middle East? Ah, but that is a different thread.

What makes you think Noah lived near where the Garden was? We are talking about over a thousand year gap between Adam's fall and the flood. I'm pretty sure I'm not living where my ancestors were about 1500 years ago.

If Noah was a real person (and he probably wasn't) he would have lived in the eastern hemisphere - that's where all the legends about him originate. And in any possible age that Noah could have lived in, the continents were already separated.

[_Buffalo]

If we consider doctrine as "what is taught and believed", rather than either canonized or most widely taught, Simon's point should be considered.

The earth is 6000 years old: Canonized in scripture, but teachings have included both emphatic yes and occasional wishy-washy statements to accommodate those who insist on considering old Earth as determined by science (e.g., Widtsoe & Eyring)

Adam and Eve were created by god in the Garden of Eden: Canonized in temple ceremony, but teachings include both emphatic yes and occasional wishy-washy statements to allow for pre-adamites (e.g., Widtsoe, Talmage, & Eyring)

The flood happened literally and covered the whole earth: Canonized in all four books of scripture and widely taught in manuals, but local flood beliefs are argued as OK by FAIR/FARMS once we realize that part of scripture is just hyperbole turned to myth*. (not aware of any church publication that allows for local flood).

Native Americans are descended, in part (formerly wholly), from Hebrews: Canonized in Book of Mormon, but more wishy-washy Book of Mormon heading now allows for fraction of Native Americans descended from Hebrews to range: 0 < f <= 1

Stars get their power from other stars: Canonized in scripture but no one really believes or teaches this anymore

Faith is a positive attribute: Canonized and taught, but ummmm ........ really silly when the Jehova's Witnesses fall back on it.

*this is not allowed for other parts of scripture, like say the resurrection or the existence of Nephi

You can find dissenting opinions in the church about almost anything, but the positions I listed are the official ones.

Also, note that I said that the current doctrine is that some native Americans are descended from Hebrews - which is also not born out by science.

[_Themis]

That's opinion, not doctrine. The doctrine, as we find the Ensign, says the flood was global and good Mormons have to believe that.

What is interesting is that the only quote he came up with does not promote a local flood, only that he doesn't know the nature of the flood.

[_Themis]

If we consider doctrine as "what is taught and believed", rather than either canonized or most widely taught, Simon's point should be considered.

The earth is 6000 years old: Canonized in scripture, but teachings have included both emphatic yes and occasional wishy-washy statements to accommodate those who insist on considering old Earth as determined by science (e.g., Widtsoe & Eyring)

Adam and Eve were created by god in the Garden of Eden: Canonized in temple ceremony, but teachings include both emphatic yes and occasional wishy-washy statements to allow for pre-adamites (e.g., Widtsoe, Talmage, & Eyring)

The flood happened literally and covered the whole earth: Canonized in all four books of scripture and widely taught in manuals, but local flood beliefs are argued as OK by FAIR/FARMS once we realize that part of scripture is just hyperbole turned to myth*. (not aware of any church publication that allows for local flood).

Native Americans are descended, in part (formerly wholly), from Hebrews: Canonized in Book of Mormon, but more wishy-washy Book of Mormon heading now allows for fraction of Native Americans descended from Hebrews to range: 0 < f <= 1

Stars get their power from other stars: Canonized in scripture but no one really believes or teaches this anymore

Faith is a positive attribute: Canonized and taught, but ummmm ........ really silly when the Jehova's Witnesses fall back on it.

*this is not allowed for other parts of scripture, like say the resurrection or the existence of Nephi

Most of the doctrines you listed here is doctrine that the church teaches currently, especially the global flood, but are not required for member to accept in order to maintain good standing with the church.

[_Baker]

The literal Tower of Babel is essential to Mormon scripture - unless one reasons that the beginning of the Jaredite account is a mistaken interpretation by the Nephites.

[_Tchild]

The literal Tower of Babel is essential to Mormon scripture - unless one reasons that the beginning of the Jaredite account is a mistaken interpretation by the Nephites.

So is "the fall" - and with "the fall", a world that was deathless and that required a "fall".

Problem is, there has always been death and the fall of Adam, while quite nice as allegory, is patently wrong as a literal reality. Unfortunately for the LDS church, they unwisely and incorrectly chose the literal over allegorical.

Shucks, it really sucks when your religion picks the wrong interpretation that falsifies your cosmology.

[_Joseph]

Buffalo wrote:

Um... just as I thought. Some apostates never understood Church doctrine.


Official church doctrine:

The earth is 6000 years old[/quote]

bumnuts wrote: It is no wonder you left the Church... you didn't even understand its doctrine. This is not the position of the Church. D&C says that one day is like 10,000 years to God. so if God created the Earth in 6 days... well you do the math.
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Not too good on math and tubbytommie the pepsi fiend isn't either. Seems no moron prophet has been able to figure this one out - but you have, wow


Quote:

Adam and Eve were created by god in the Garden of Eden


bumnuts writes: It's like I'm talking to a 4th grader. Adam and Eve were given BODIES in the GoE. Their intelligences have existed forever, like ours.
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You have intelligence? Is there somewhere it is displayed?
God created them from dust, says so in the scriptures.


Quote:

The flood happened literally and covered the whole earth


blemish writes again: Yeah... usually that is doctrine. Some General Authorities have suggested it was a local flood, as well as some scholars. I think it was a local flood, too.
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Quit fooling boy, you don't think. You only repeat. All those prophetic types and you think they are full of bs on this. You are on the road to apostacy boy


Quote:

Native Americans are descended, in part (formerly wholly), from Hebrews


Some Native Americans.
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Really? Which ones? Joe the coxman, Brigham and all the early inspired types said it was all of them. Little spencer, that cute miracle of forgiveness said they were all lamanites, or was it just lame nits, like you seem to think?


Quote:

Stars get their power from other stars


Huh? Do you know what allegory is?
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Supposed to have been said by joe the coxman as a revelation. Or did you mean allergy?


Quote:

Faith is a positive attribute


Faith is a positive attribute.
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Not when it is faith in lies and BS.


Quote:

All directly contradicted by those texts.


Those texts say faith is not a positive attribute? CFR
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How about CTR - choose the Republican? A very moronic priesthood belief.
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Copyright© 1985, Simon Belmont
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Once again a lie on your part. Your posts are not and cannot be copyright 1985. Why do the orderlies let you sneak into the computer room and the nurses not double check to see you are hiding your meds?