Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

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_Droopy
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _Droopy »

If the encounter had occurred in a place of business, Will would have been fired and the company successfully sued.



I know. The Annointed (the "Left") pretty much runs the world and determines much of its legal, cultural, and intellectual atmosphere.

Power has its privileges, and the less accountability, the more the privilege.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

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I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

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_Blixa
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _Blixa »

wenglund wrote:
consiglieri wrote: TEST

harmony is a c u n t.

(I just love circumnavigating software.)

All the Best!

--Consiglieri


Very interesting.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


Wade, what the hell is wrong with you?

Consig asked you why you edited his response to read "harmony is a ...." and I don't see any reply from you yet.

I can't see anything in your limited understanding of parody, satire or rhyme and meter that would justify this. Please get a grip.
Last edited by Anonymous on Fri May 06, 2011 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_consiglieri
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _consiglieri »

Trevor wrote:Amen, consiglieri. And not that you bring it up, let me say that I am weary of all of this scrutinizing of each other's character. It is an endless loop on these Mormon boards. All of them. Everyone is looking at everyone else, standing in judgment, pointing fingers. Hey, don't get me wrong, I have done my fair share, to be sure, but isn't it getting damned boring as hell?


I agree with you wholeheartedly, Trevor.

I think the fascination with Will is how he denies what he has said even though it is documented and produced for all to see, and then justifies what he has said by claiming it is true and how wittily he has phrased it, and his statements that other unnamed apologists think it is funny, too, and how he refuses to apologize.

It is just sort of mind blowing.

But you are right it has come to a point where it seems that pretty much everything that can be said has been said and now we are just into season eight of reruns.

I don't expect Will is going to take me up on my suggestion to have constructive dialogue, but thought I would give it a chance just the same.

Now that would be something new!

All the Best!

--Consiglieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_Buffalo
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _Buffalo »

Droopy wrote:
Since when does criticizing a church make someone a bad person?


It doesn't, of course. However, depending upon the level of criticism and its relation to fundamental, core truth claims, at some point such criticism would require one to, at a minimum, recuse oneself from the Temple as a matter of one's own personal integrity, as Temple Worship is the highest form of Worship in the gospel, and presupposes acceptance and allegiance (indeed, a personal, revealed knowledge of) the core truth claims of the Church and a sense of faithfulness to them at any cost.

Harmony does not now accept, as best I can tell after debating here for nearly a decade, virtually any of the core truth claims/doctrines of the Church (including the story of its origin as told by Joseph Smith and recounted today by missionaries throughout the world) nor does she consider the Brethren, as a body and perhaps save for a few select individuals, as either inspired representatives of the Lord to the Church, or, in many cases, even as sincere, decent human beings seeking the welfare of their flock.

As she does not, and cannot possibly be answering the vast majority of those recommend questions honestly, this then bespeaks something rather dark and entropic about her character.

I say this with especial reference to:

Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?

Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?

Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?

Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?


Harmony has dismissed one of the four standard works altogether as fraudulent (perhaps the most doctrinally profound among all modern revelation, as it ironically turns out), and her views of many other issues in LDS history, practice, and doctrine are well known.

And most of them are not peripheral, but central.


Let's take a look at those questions:

1. Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Christ, and the Holy Ghost?
2. Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?
3. Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?
4. Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?
5. Do you live the law of chastity?
6. Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?
7. Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
8. Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?
9. Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?
10. Are you a full-tithe payer?
11. Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?
12. Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?
13. If you have previously received your temple endowment: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
14. Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?
15. Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?


If Mormon apologetics has taught us anything, it's that you can interpret LDS theology and events and texts any way you like if you think it's serving a good purpose. I don't know a lot about Harmony, but I would assume she might have problems with these:

4. Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

7. Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Well, what does sustain mean? What does it mean to be a prophet, seer or revelator? These are open to interpretation. Just like the literalness of Joseph's translation of Abraham is now open to interpretation. Once you enter the world of Mormon apologetics, the meaning of words and concepts becomes endlessly fluid. What's good for the apologists and the general authorities must also be good for the members. If they can hedge on meaning when it's expedient, so can the members.

As far as 7 goes, if you take that literally, I doubt anyone would be able to answer 'no' honestly.



Also note that there's no question about whether you accept all four of the standard works as scripture.
Last edited by Guest on Fri May 06, 2011 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Simon Belmont

Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _Simon Belmont »

3sheets2thewind wrote:for those interested here is the mailing address for the North Cedar Stake


I am sure which ever of those SP would like to be informed how one of their flock (possibly a member of the listed stakes) represents the Church.


Leave the in real life stuff out of it.
_Will Schryver
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _Will Schryver »

Buffalo wrote:If the encounter had occurred in a place of business, Will would have been fired and the company successfully sued.

Sorry, but since you're on my Ignore list, I didn't notice this until Droopy quoted it.

Anyway ........ ???

What "encounter" are you talking about?

(Incidentally, I was first exposed to the term "circle jerk" in the context of staff meetings for a company where I worked in the early 90s. It was quite often a particularly apropos term in that setting.)
I thought myself the wiser to have viewed the evidence left of such a great demise. I followed every step. But the only thing I ever learned before the journey's end was there was nothing there to learn, only something to forget.
_consiglieri
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _consiglieri »

Blixa wrote:Wade, what the hell is wrong with you?
Consig asked you why you edited his response to read "harmony is a ...." and I don't see any reply from you yet.

I can't see anything in your limited understanding of parody, satire or rhyme and meter that would justify this. Please get a grip.


I was shocked by this, too, but have to admit that I am the one who "started it" with my "test," and apologize profusely to anybody this may have offended, including especially Dr. Shades.

I think my point was implicit in that I was demonstrating how Harmony could indeed have seen the word she says Will called her in spite of the programming safeguards in place.

Maybe I should have just described the procedure, but I thought the effect would have been lost.

Again my heartfelt apologies.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)
_Eric

Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _Eric »

Trevor wrote:Amen, consiglieri. And now that you bring it up, let me say that I am weary of all of this scrutinizing of each other's character. It is an endless loop on these Mormon boards. All of them. Everyone is looking at everyone else, standing in judgment, pointing fingers. Hey, don't get me wrong, I have done my fair share, to be sure, but isn't it getting damned boring as hell?


Amen.
_Buffalo
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _Buffalo »

Will Schryver wrote:
Buffalo wrote:If the encounter had occurred in a place of business, Will would have been fired and the company successfully sued.

Sorry, but since you're on my Ignore list, I didn't notice this until Droopy quoted it.

Anyway ........ ???

What "encounter" are you talking about?

(Incidentally, I was first exposed to the term "circle jerk" in the context of staff meetings for a company where I worked in the early 90s. It was quite often a particularly apropos term in that setting.)


Either of these, for starters:


''Harmony is just bitter that the daily circle jerks in the Great and Spacious Trailer Park™ are the closest she has come to a bona fide sexual experience in over 40 years.

I simply cannot understand how her husband has resisted the urge to off himself for so long. Of all the men in human history who have felt compelled, no matter the cost, to “stick it out” with a bitch of a wife – Joseph Smith included – if anyone deserves the reward of 72 virgins in heaven, it’s that poor man.''

'(Kimberly does remain somewhat famous [among a small circle of otherwise respected academics] on account of my descriptions of her having once squeezed her then more voluptuous spirit tabernacle into a slinky black three-sizes-too-small dress at the 2006 Exmormon Foundation conference in Salt Lake City, which I attended. One wouldn't have believed it possible to carry melons in a pair of thimbles suspended from a thread, but miracles happen almost every day in this jaded world of cynical disbelievers.)'
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Buffalo
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _Buffalo »

Simon Belmont wrote:
3sheets2thewind wrote:for those interested here is the mailing address for the North Cedar Stake


I am sure which ever of those SP would like to be informed how one of their flock (possibly a member of the listed stakes) represents the Church.


Leave the in real life stuff out of it.


Agreed
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
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