Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

[Guest]

Belinda Schryver ~ Welcome to the Mormon Discussions Community!

You said:

As for this calling women bitches thing, all I can say is let whoever is without sin among you cast the first stone.

I don't think this analogy holds, at least not for my part. For starters, while the text doesn't say for certain, the incident of the woman caught in adultery strongly implies that the woman was ashamed of what she had done. William has made it perfectly clear that as far as most of these cases are concerned, he has no shame and no remorse. He doesn't need to "go now and leave [his] life of sin" because he doesn't think he has sinned.

Two, I'm not interested in stoning anyone, not literally, not metaphorically. I wrote this thread to:

(1) Concisely and accurately document William's treatment of women on our forums
(2) Alert people who are familiar with William of this poor behavior. They can own him or they can disown him, but the days of pleading ignorance are going to end.
(3) Voice my concerns about William's upcoming contributions to Mormon academia given his consistently poor treatment of women.
(4) Convince William to apologize for and abandon this behavior. I knew from the start that this was a distant hope, but a woman can dream.

I don't see any reason for theatrics on "stoning."

I don't think I know a grown man who hasn't at least once referred to a woman as a bitch.

Really? I know one:

I've got to believe that all the fair-minded people who read these things written about Will on this message board will come to see what a terrible set of liars and deceivers so many of you are.

I sincerely hope that we all get to test this hypothesis very soon, and see whether or not the "fair-minded people" agree with your assertion that those who have called out your husband for making lewd and misogynist comments to women are "a terrible set of liars and deceivers."

Thanks for dropping by. Oh, and by the way, please do me a favor and let your husband know that comments like this:

[S]o now has MsJack chosen to break herself on the same stone. Of course, maybe it’s for the best. Now she can, deprived of any further pretensions to moral superiority, shamelessly join the rest of the GSTP women in the infamous “Goddess Suite” for a raucous session of suggestive excess.

Wherein he speculates on what types of sex acts I might like to engage in are completely unwarranted, unwelcome, inappropriate, and out of line. I haven't brought it up with him directly because he's been proven to do a very poor job of listening when women tell him that his comments about them are unwanted and inappropriate, but perhaps you can help me out.

[_beastie]

I asked him to clarify on this denial in my very first response to him on this thread, and he never replied. Then later in the thread, he proudly admitted to making the comment in question to harmony.

It's a little late to rescue your "friend" by blaming his transgressions on a sock puppet.

Utterly amazing. Will can't keep track of his own story even in the bounds of one thread.

I understand that the human instinct towards tribalism and denial are quite strong, but at some point, wouldn't even Will's most ardent fans catch a little clue and realize that he isn't very honest?

[_consiglieri]

Really? I know one:

ZING!!!


And a lovely couple you make, too.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_KimberlyAnn]

He is more of a real man than the immasculated males who are the majority of the 20 – 45 year olds in the world today. I wouldn’t trade him for any of the soft wimpy men that are so common these days.

What is a real man? What makes most of us emasculated?

You haven't watched Mulan in a while, have you?

So, you want to be a real man? Let your fellow Mormon coach you!

You don't need to be a jerk to be a real man. Kindness does not equal emasculation. It's quite the opposite, in fact.

What you must be is swift as the coursing river (be a man!), with all the force of a great typhoon (be a man!), with all the strength of a raging fire, mysterious as the dark side of the moon.

The instruction comes from Donny Osmond and Disney. I think that makes it doctrine. ;)

KA

PS. I'm glad to hear that you had a nice Mother's Day, Ms.Jack.

[_just me]

Really? I know one:

ZING!!!


And a lovely couple you make, too.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Too true!

You can count my husband as another man who has never called a woman a B-word.

[_Kevin Graham]

Will married a Molly Mormon. They met on their mission from what I understand. Supposedly she has spent most if not all her life in the LDS faith.

And yet she doesn't know of a single man who has not called a female the B word? Does this include Will's buddies from the Dallin H. Oaks family?

Wow.

What does that say about the company she keeps?

I can think of probably a dozen guys who have never said that at all, let alone towards a female. And most of them are LDS.

[_Tator]

I am probably guilty of attributing some quotes to Will he didn't make, I am sorry for that. But with that the huge volume of his display of vulgarity it is minimal. Will has admitted to slut, bitch and all the circle jerk descriptions per nausea. In my view, slut is no different than the C-word. Bitch is no better.

Will reminds me of a Mexican I worked construction with in my younger days. He was a huge man and very strong but not the brightest to say the least. He was really a nice guy but he murdered the English language. He would say things like, "that John Doe is a great guy he'd take the shirt right off your back", "it's as funny as the cow in the moon", "you can't get blood out of a donut" and many, many more. You always understood what he meant but it always came out funny. A few of the guys made fun of him.

He made more than his share of blunders and a couple of the guys would demean him. They would say something like, "Adolf, you big, dumb, stupid, ugly, blankity-blankity Mexican". Adolf's most common reply was, "hey, I ain't so big".

This is what reminds me of Will. There is a huge laundry list of Will's vulgarity and he picks out one or two and says, "hey, I ain't so bad".

[_Kishkumen]

What does that say about the company she keeps?

I can think of probably a dozen guys who have never said that at all, let alone towards a female. And most of them are LDS.

She lives in southern Utah and is married to Will Schryver. Doesn't that tell us enough?

I stick by my conclusion, though: it is the lack of charity, not the lack of manners that makes Will a bad apologist.

[_MsJack]

I have just posted a significant update to the very first post in this thread. I hope the moderators do not mind; I used orange text and "huge" font to make sure future readers of this thread see it.

I consider the matter I have raised in this thread as closed as it ever will be. Please do not be surprised if I cease all participation in this thread from this point onward.

[_Doctor Scratch]

Hi there, MsJack.

I have received a very brief note informing me that my case as laid out in this thread has been heard and William Schryver's work will not be published by the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship.

Wow! It seems that your thread singlehandedly torpedoed Will Schryver's prospects of publishing with the MI. This is truly remarkable.

I have to ask, though: Did your "source" happen to say anything about Schryver looking for other possible publication venues? (And what might those be? Maybe he'll publish with FAIR?)

Regardless, it'll be interesting to see if Will turns up to explain his side of things. I.e., how did Hoskisson (or whoever) break the news to him? Does this mean that Will was lying when he implied that the MI folks were amused by his antics?