Mormons are ashamed of their own beliefs

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_MCB
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Re: Mormons are ashamed of their own beliefs

Post by _MCB »

Doctor Scratch wrote:I'm confused, Pahoran, as to where in the scriptures that your treatment of Harmony is justifiable. You *are* a priesthood holder, are you not? It seems to me that your treatment of this daughter of Heavenly Father has been stunningly cruel, vicious, and very much outside of what you've been taught to do.


Is there a trend here? Do you think his attitude towards women is harsher than his attitude towards men?


Mosiah 21:17
17 Now there was a great number of women, more than there was of
men; therefore king Limhi commanded that every man should impart
to the support of the widows and their children, that they might
not perish with hunger; and this they did because of the
greatness of their number that had been slain.



Mormon 8:40
40 Yea, why do ye build up your secret abominations to get gain,
and cause that widows should mourn before the Lord, and also
orphans to mourn before the Lord, and also the blood of their
fathers and their husbands to cry unto the Lord from the ground,
for vengeance upon your heads?



3 Nephi 24:7
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine
ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me and I will
return unto you, saith the Lord of Hosts. But ye say: Wherein
shall we return?

3 Nephi 24:8
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say:
Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

3 Nephi 24:9
9 Ye are cursed with a curse, for ye have robbed me, even this
whole nation.

3 Nephi 24:10
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may
be meat in my house; and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of
Hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you
out a blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive it.



Mosiah 11:1
1 And now it came to pass that Zeniff conferred the kingdom upon
Noah, one of his sons; therefore Noah began to reign in his
stead; and he did not walk in the ways of his father.

Mosiah 11:2
2 For behold, he did not keep the commandments of God, but he
did walk after the desires of his own heart. And he had many
wives and concubines. And he did cause his people to commit sin,
and do that which was abominable in the sight of the Lord. Yea,
and they did commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness.

Mosiah 11:3
3 And he laid a tax of one fifth part of all they possessed, a
fifth part of their gold and of their silver, and a fifth part of
their ziff, and of their copper, and of their brass and their
iron; and a fifth part of their fatlings; and also a fifth part
of all their grain.

Mosiah 11:4
4 And all this did he take to support himself, and his wives and
his concubines; and also his priests, and their wives and their
concubines; thus he had changed the affairs of the kingdom.

Mosiah 11:5
5 For he put down all the priests that had been consecrated by
his father, and consecrated new ones in their stead, such as were
lifted up in the pride of their hearts.

Mosiah 11:6
6 Yea, and thus they were supported in their laziness, and in
their idolatry, and in their whoredoms, by the taxes which king
Noah had put upon his people; thus did the people labor
exceedingly to support iniquity.



Mosiah 18:24
24 And he also commanded them that the priests whom he had
ordained should labor with their own hands for their support.

Mosiah 18:25
25 And there was one day in every week that was set apart that
they should gather themselves together to teach the people, and
to worship the Lord their God, and also, as often as it was in
their power, to assemble themselves together.

Mosiah 18:26
26 And the priests were not to depend upon the people for their
support; but for their labor they were to receive the grace of
God, that they might wax strong in the Spirit, having the
knowledge of God, that they might teach with power and authority
from God.

Mosiah 18:27
27 And again Alma commanded that the people of the church should
impart of their substance, every one according to that which he
had; if he have more abundantly he should impart more abundantly;
and of him that had but little, but little should be required;
and to him that had not should be given.

Mosiah 18:28
28 And thus they should impart of their substance of their own
free will and good desires towards God, and to those priests that
stood in need, yea, and to every needy, naked soul.

Mosiah 18:29
29 And this he said unto them, having been commanded of God; and
they did walk uprightly before God, imparting to one another both
temporally and spiritually according to their needs and their
wants.

Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
_jon
_Emeritus
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:15 am

Re: Mormons are ashamed of their own beliefs

Post by _jon »

jon wrote:Pahoran wrote (with reference to the relatively modest amount of Church money that goes to humanitarian spending):

Sorry jon, but the Church supplements those funds, as needed, from the tithing funds.

Pahoran - prove that, show that money from Tithing gets spent on humanitarian aid.
Don't fudge
Don't dodge
Don't duck
Don't dive
Just provide evidence (not personal testimony) that backs up your statement.


Bumped to highlight Pahoran's trade mark silence in response to requests for referenced facts...
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
_Pahoran
_Emeritus
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:20 am

Re: Mormons are ashamed of their own beliefs

Post by _Pahoran »

MCB wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:I'm confused, Pahoran, as to where in the scriptures that your treatment of Harmony is justifiable. You *are* a priesthood holder, are you not? It seems to me that your treatment of this daughter of Heavenly Father has been stunningly cruel, vicious, and very much outside of what you've been taught to do.

Is there a trend here? Do you think his attitude towards women is harsher than his attitude towards men?

Of course it is. Look how gentle and kind I am to Scratch, for example.

Because it couldn't possibly be the case that you are just more alert to anything less than grovelling deference to your fellow feminocrats, could it?

Regards,
Pahoran
_MCB
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Re: Mormons are ashamed of their own beliefs

Post by _MCB »

Ahhhh-- the question was addressed to Scratch.

However, thank you for your self-assessment.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
_zeezrom
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Re: Mormons are ashamed of their own beliefs

Post by _zeezrom »

I wonder what Pahoran would think of the music video "Run the World (girls)" by Beyonce.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_Runtu
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Re: Mormons are ashamed of their own beliefs

Post by _Runtu »

Pahoran wrote:Of course it is. Look how gentle and kind I am to Scratch, for example.

Because it couldn't possibly be the case that you are just more alert to anything less than grovelling deference to your fellow feminocrats, could it?

Regards,
Pahoran


I usually enjoy your polemical style, Pah, but bold and italic? Seems like typographical overkill. But you made up for it with "grovelling deference to your fellow feminocrats." Of course, I don't know what a feminocrat is.
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Buffalo
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Re: Mormons are ashamed of their own beliefs

Post by _Buffalo »

Pahoran wrote:Of course it is. Look how gentle and kind I am to Scratch, for example.

Because it couldn't possibly be the case that you are just more alert to anything less than grovelling deference to your fellow feminocrats, could it?

Regards,
Pahoran


I don't see you as picking on Harmony any more than anyone else. You're just broadly nasty and mean-spirited at all times in all your posts here. That's probably not good for your health, but hey, it's your life.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Buffalo
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Re: Mormons are ashamed of their own beliefs

Post by _Buffalo »

Runtu wrote:
I usually enjoy your polemical style, Pah, but bold and italic? Seems like typographical overkill. But you made up for it with "grovelling deference to your fellow feminocrats." Of course, I don't know what a feminocrat is.


Any woman who has the audacity to agitate for equal rights.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Jason Bourne
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Re: Mormons are ashamed of their own beliefs

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Daniel Peterson wrote:I think it does matter, not hugely, but somewhat, whether money comes from tithing funds or not.

Precisely because critics of the Church like Harmony seek to use the emotive power of the word tithing in order, for example, to blacken the reputation of President Packer and paint him as a corrupt, greedy, hypocritical oligarch who gluts himself upon the sacrifices of widows and orphans and the poor, it matters.



Well my main point that I have treid to make to you and Pahoran is that it is a poor defense to argue GA stipends don't come from tithing and that somehow makes it better. I found it odd when President Hinckley even addressed where the money might come from. Same thing for the mall really. All money used by the church ultimatly traced back to some contribution by members. And if it is used for malls or or other businesses or investments that can mean less for other things it seespms Christ's church ought to do.
_harmony
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Re: Mormons are ashamed of their own beliefs

Post by _harmony »

Pahoran wrote:Explain, please, where "Tithing Trough" Harmony makes any allowance at all for the Church to invest its surplus in a financially prudent way.


In my opinion, the church should never never never have any surplus, until there are no poor in the world and widows have all they need.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
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