The unnatural sex practices of the Mormon people

[_Buffalo]

Let's not forget - early in church history god seemed to have been more friendly toward the idea of masturbation at least. From the original book of commandments:

"...remember this is your gift now this is not all for you have another gift which is the gift of working with the rod Behold it has told you things Behold there is no other power save God that can cause this rod to work in your hands."

:p

[_Yahoo Bot]

On the other hand, the church has encouraged and continues to encourage unnatural sex practices. These include:

*Refraining from necking, petting etc while dating
*Refraining from premarital sex, even between fiances and others in a committed relationship; putting the breaks on normal physical expressions of love until an arbitrary legalistic hurdle has been cleared - one that, ironically, Joseph Smith ignored his whole life.
*Celibacy among homosexuals


I'd like to see the church move away from encouraging these types of unnatural (and often harmful) sex practices.

Perhaps you live in Utah.

Most fathers of daughters, where I live, would at least want to (perhaps wouldn't actually do it) take a baseball bat to confront some young man who engaged in "petting" or "premarital sex" with his minor daughter. Parents surrender their unhappiness as the daughter gets older, but they often are not happy. Irrespective of religion, but this attitude is certainly more pronounced in religious households of all stripes -- in particular, Catholic, many Jews, Muslim and EV where I live.

And, in most of these faiths, homosexual behavior is considered sinful.

So, you may mock the Church's teachings all you want but these views aren't all that unusual. What sets the Church apart is its practice of publishing general conference statements where these things are talked about in public; no other religion does that.

For instance, in the Prop 8 battle, the black churches in California railed on and on about how sinful and vile homosexual practitioners were -- it received hardly a notice because these sermons weren't recorded. A few LA Times articles here and there noted the phenomenon.

[_bcspace]

The message that the youth get is that sex is practically the most dirty, filthy evil thing ever ...

I reject this statement.

Is this what your parents taught you? If so, they have problems and did you wrong. I'm sorry about that. Really.

Try marriage counseling. It just might help.

I concur. Since I was cognizant of sex in the 1970's, I never got the impression from the Church that it was dirty unless it took place outside of marriage. I did get the impression from the Church that it was something I could look forward to. Proverbs 5:18-19 for example.

What's going on here is that "unnatural" is being spoken of in two senses. One, in the sense that the natural man is an enemy to God; that we are to control our appetites to within the bounds the Lord has set. The other sense is the practice of the appetites themselves. I do not necessarily agree with the bretheren in the way they presented the later years ago, but it generally meant little since I wasn't old enough to be married then.

I'd say those who have a problem with it now have twisted the spirit in which these things are taught, and yes, I do believe most of them have sexual hangups brought on by themselves and not the Church as they claim.

[_Buffalo]

The message that the youth get is that sex is practically the most dirty, filthy evil thing ever ...

I reject this statement.

Is this what your parents taught you? If so, they have problems and did you wrong. I'm sorry about that. Really.

Try marriage counseling. It just might help.

No, my parents never talked to me about sex at all. Everything I learned was in young men's.

We've got a good sex life now, for the most part (I suspect she still feels a little guilty about anything to do with sex/pleasure sometimes). But we had to deprogram a lot of the baggage we learned in young men's and young women's. It took about a year for me to stop feeling guilty about sex, anyway.

[_Nomad]

The key, in my view, is for a husband and wife to talk, to explore together, to compromise, to give, and to build a healthy relationship together.

Very well said Mr. Milk Strippings! I agree 100%. Wow! This is a red letter day.

I don't know why it's so hard for some people. How hard is it to TALK to each other and work things out?

That is the problem, Mormon or not Mormon, if you ask me. Couples just don't communicate with each other. They don't try to work things out. They don't bend and give and compromise and all that is needed to make a good relationship.

[_Buffalo]

Have you tried marriage counseling? It sounds like you're a good candidate for it. What with all those hangups you're carrying around.

I realize I stuck my neck out here, but there's no need for you to personalize this just because you can't seem accept anything that might be critical of your faith. Save your advice, please.

[_Runtu]

No, my parents never talked to me about sex at all. Everything I learned was in young men's.

I wonder if we were raised by the same parents. The night before my wedding, my dad said the following, which is the only thing he ever said even remotely related to sex: "Make sure you touch your wife in nonsexual ways." I did hear some rather bizarre things from quorum advisers and bishops, but nothing from my parents.

We've got a good sex life now, for the most part (I suspect she still feels a little guilty about anything to do with sex/pleasure sometimes). But we had to deprogram a lot of the baggage we learned in young men's and young women's. It took about a year for me to stop feeling guilty about sex, anyway.

Without getting too personal, recovery from abuse has been the biggest issue for us, and it's taken a lot of talking and compromising and commitment, and some marriage counseling, to get us to where we are today. And things are rather excellent for us and have been for several years.

[_Yahoo Bot]

Mr. Milk Strippings!

Apt. Sad.

[_Buffalo]

I'd say those who have a problem with it now have twisted the spirit in which these things are taught, and yes, I do believe most of them have sexual hangups brought on by themselves and not the Church as they claim.

I'm friends with an LDS psychologist. She also says (actually, she said it to Mrs B) that it's very common for young LDS married couples to have feeling of guilt in marriage over sex, even though they've done everything right. It's also mention in this book, If I recall correctly:



by the way, my wife and I never messed up before marriage. No petting, or any of the other no-nos.

[_Runtu]

Very well said Mr. Milk Strippings! I agree 100%. Wow! This is a red letter day.

I don't know why it's so hard for some people. How hard is it to TALK to each other and work things out?

That is the problem, Mormon or not Mormon, if you ask me. Couples just don't communicate with each other. They don't try to work things out. They don't bend and give and compromise and all that is needed to make a good relationship.

Well, I hope you don't think I'm stalking you, but communication is the key to working out all aspects of a marriage relationship. No two people come into a marriage with exactly the same perspectives and experiences, and you have to work things out.

Years ago, when I was elders quorum president, my bishop told me he was hearing the same problems from young married couples: they were fighting over sex, money, and parenting. He asked me to teach lessons about these issues in priesthood meeting. So I spent one Sunday talking about resolving conflicts through communication, and then three more lessons on communication in those areas.

It is simple, but it's really hard for some couples to talk about things, especially if it's something they associate with guilt or shame.