How Well the Mormon Church Teaches About Polygamy

[_Joseph]

no whyme, I am talking about tubbietommie, paranoidboyd, diddlindallin and the rest of the gang who feed at the tithing trough like hogs.

They don't work and then teach and minister, they take the money donated and live much better than the general members who donate... and then refuse to account for the money donated.

In any other form of activity this would be a major league RED FLAG for financial fraud.

They go so far as to praise the poorest of members taking the fillings from their teeth and selling them to raise money for l-dsinc. That is a short step away from taking the fillings from the teeth of the dead at Dachau and Auschwitz...

Letting the members know the full truth would kill the donations and then these greedy bums would have to go out and get real jobs. Yes, many of them are qualified but choose instead to live on The Church Dole.

[_why me]

The manual was clear about why polygamy started.

Most students do not read the manual, do not listen if the teacher brings it up, and more then likely it is not covered in many classes. It is very uncommon in seminary, institute, Sunday school, etc to ever get through a whole teaching manual, nor is it really expected. The church really has failed in this regard, and it is their own fault. This is because it is an uncomfortable subject, and one they would rather have forgotten.

by the way no manuals in the church teach why it was really started. :)

Well, it is in the seminary manual. What the students do with it is up to them and the teacher. Like I said, there is much leeway on how to approach polygamy and the famous quotation by Joseph Smith is there in the manual. A quotation that is used by the critics. There is no reason for it to be in sunday school. As you know most of the lessons are repeats from yesteryear. I don't think that the LDS church feels that it is an uncomfortable subject at all. I just think that they don't think it is necessary. To read about the women who experienced strong spiritual confirmations about plural marriage can be a real faith promoter. And evenf discussing Emma and her reluctance just puts her as a human being. The historical teaching of plural marriage can be very faith promoting, and the seminary manual does that but in a different way.

[_why me]

Letting the members know the full truth would kill the donations and then these greedy bums would have to go out and get real jobs. Yes, many of them are qualified but choose instead to live on The Church Dole.

Your hatred must be overwhelming for you. Much better to have no bitterness and just move on. Talking to a catholic priest can help. They are usually understanding of bitterness and suffering. Much better to talk it out and discover peace.

[_Joseph]

From that seminary lesson manual. There is NO mention of Fannie, Eliza R. Snow Smith, or 33 wives. Very little on plural marriage and Joseph at all.



Doctrine and Covenants 124. The threefold
mission of the Church is to proclaim the gospel,
perfect the Saints, and redeem the dead.

President Joseph F. Smith, who was then a counselor in the
First Presidency, wrote that the “principle of plural marriage
was first revealed to Joseph Smith in 1831, but being forbidden
to make it public, or to teach it as a doctrine of the Gospel, at
that time, he confided the facts to only a very few of his
intimate associates” (in “Plural Marriage,” in Andrew Jenson,
comp., Historical Record, 9 vols. [1882–90], 6:219). The Prophet
taught the principle privately, and by 1841–42 he and several
trusted Church members were living it (see Church History in
the Fulness of Times, p. 256). Section 132 was recorded in 1843,
but the Church did not announce the doctrine of plural
marriage publically until 1852.

Plural marriage is forbidden unless the Lord commands it
through His prophet (see D&C 132:34–39, 61–66; see also
Jacob 2:27–30; Official Declaration 1).

Doctrine and Covenants 132:34–40, 45–48, 61–66.
Plural marriage is forbidden unless the Lord
commands it through His prophet. (40–45 minutes)
Note: Avoid sensationalism and speculation when talking
about plural marriage. Sometimes teachers speculate that
plural marriage will be a requirement for all who enter the
celestial kingdom. We have no knowledge that plural
marriage will be a requirement for exaltation.

Share the following statement by President John Taylor:
Ask: How does this statement relate to the fact that plural
marriage was practiced early in this dispensation?
Read Doctrine and Covenants 132:45–48 and ask:
• Who received the revelation to practice plural marriage in
this dispensation? (Joseph Smith.)
• Who received the revelation to discontinue practicing plural
marriage? (Wilford Woodruff; see Official Declaration 1.)
• What did these two men have in common? (They were
prophets who held the keys of the kingdom; see vv. 45–46.)
• What powers are given to prophets with these keys? (see
vv. 46–48).
• How are the powers described in verse 46 seen in the
actions of both Joseph Smith and Wilford Woodruff?
Have students read and cross-reference Jacob 2:30 and Doctrine
and Covenants 132:63. Ask: Besides “restor[ing] all things”
(D&C 132:40) in the dispensation of the fulness of times, what
other purpose does the Lord give for restoring plural marriage?
Share the following statement by President Gordon B. Hinckley:
“I wish to state categorically that this Church has
nothing whatever to do with those practicing
polygamy. They are not members of this Church.
Most of them have never been members. They are in
violation of the civil law. They know they are in
violation of the law. They are subject to its penalties.
The Church, of course, has no jurisdiction whatever
in this matter.
“In and through [the] various dispensations, certain
principles, powers, privileges and priesthoods have
been developed. But in the dispensation of the fulness
of times a combination or a fulness, a completeness of
all those dispensations was to be introduced among the
human family. If there was anything pertaining to the
Adamic . . . dispensation, it would be made manifest in
the last days. If there was anything associated with
Enoch and his city, and the gathering together of his
people, . . . it would be manifested in the last days. If
there was anything associated with the Melchizedek
priesthood in all its forms, powers, privileges and
blessings at any time or in any part of the earth, it
would be restored in the last days. . . . For this is the
dispensation of the fulness of times, embracing all other
times, all principles, all powers, all manifestations, all
priesthoods and the powers thereof that have existed in
any age, in any part of the world” (The Gospel Kingdom,
sel. G. Homer Durham [1943], 101–2).

“If any of our members are found to be practicing
plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most
serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are
those so involved in direct violation of the civil law,
they are in violation of the law of this Church. An
article of our faith is binding upon us. It states, ‘We
believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers,
and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining
the law’ (Articles of Faith 1:12). One cannot obey the
law and disobey the law at the same time” (in Conference
Report, Oct. 1998, 92; or Ensign, Nov. 1998, 71).

Have students read Mosiah 26:14–15, 20 and identify
someone else who received this promise (Alma). Read 2 Peter
1:10, 19 and look for two ways Peter referred to this promise
from the Lord. (Making one’s calling and election sure, and
receiving the more sure word of prophecy.) Ask: What
counsel did Peter give in verse 10 that we could strive to
follow? Share the following statement by Elder Bruce R.
McConkie, who was a member of the Quorum of the Twelve:
“To have one’s calling and election made sure is to be
sealed up unto eternal life; it is to have the
unconditional guarantee of exaltation in the highest
heaven of the celestial world; it is to receive the
assurance of godhood; it is, in effect, to have the day
of judgment advanced, so that an inheritance of all
“If any of our members are found to be practicing
plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most
serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are
those so involved in direct violation of the civil law,
they are in violation of the law of this Church. An
article of our faith is binding upon us. It states, ‘We
believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers,
and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining
the law’ (Articles of Faith 1:12). One cannot obey the
law and disobey the law at the same time” (in Conference
Report, Oct. 1998, 92; or Ensign, Nov. 1998, 71).
Nauvoo Period
226

[_Everybody Wang Chung]

Joseph,

I'm confused. In your response to my post on this thread you told me that BYU does teach polygamy and that I was just not paying attention to the facts. Now you are saying that the Church doesn't teach polygamy?

What in the hell is your position on this? Strange.

[_why me]

From that seminary lesson manual. There is NO mention of Fannie, Eliza R. Snow Smith, or 33 wives. Very little on plural marriage and Joseph at all.



Doctrine and Covenants 124. The threefold
mission of the Church is to proclaim the gospel,
perfect the Saints, and redeem the dead.

President Joseph F. Smith, who was then a counselor in the
First Presidency, wrote that the “principle of plural marriage
was first revealed to Joseph Smith in 1831, but being forbidden
to make it public, or to teach it as a doctrine of the Gospel, at
that time, he confided the facts to only a very few of his
intimate associates” (in “Plural Marriage,” in Andrew Jenson,
comp., Historical Record, 9 vols. [1882–90], 6:219). The Prophet
taught the principle privately, and by 1841–42 he and several
trusted Church members were living it (see Church History in
the Fulness of Times, p. 256). Section 132 was recorded in 1843,
but the Church did not announce the doctrine of plural
marriage publically until 1852.

Plural marriage is forbidden unless the Lord commands it
through His prophet (see D&C 132:34–39, 61–66; see also
Jacob 2:27–30; Official Declaration 1).

Doctrine and Covenants 132:34–40, 45–48, 61–66.
Plural marriage is forbidden unless the Lord
commands it through His prophet. (40–45 minutes)
Note: Avoid sensationalism and speculation when talking
about plural marriage. Sometimes teachers speculate that
plural marriage will be a requirement for all who enter the
celestial kingdom. We have no knowledge that plural
marriage will be a requirement for exaltation.

Share the following statement by President John Taylor:
Ask: How does this statement relate to the fact that plural
marriage was practiced early in this dispensation?
Read Doctrine and Covenants 132:45–48 and ask:
• Who received the revelation to practice plural marriage in
this dispensation? (Joseph Smith.)• Who received the revelation to discontinue practicing plural
marriage? (Wilford Woodruff; see Official Declaration 1.)
• What did these two men have in common? (They were
prophets who held the keys of the kingdom; see vv. 45–46.)
• What powers are given to prophets with these keys? (see
vv. 46–48).
• How are the powers described in verse 46 seen in the
actions of both Joseph Smith and Wilford Woodruff?
Have students read and cross-reference Jacob 2:30 and Doctrine
and Covenants 132:63. Ask: Besides “restor[ing] all things”
(D&C 132:40) in the dispensation of the fulness of times, what
other purpose does the Lord give for restoring plural marriage?
Share the following statement by President Gordon B. Hinckley:
“I wish to state categorically that this Church has
nothing whatever to do with those practicing
polygamy. They are not members of this Church.
Most of them have never been members. They are in
violation of the civil law. They know they are in
violation of the law. They are subject to its penalties.
The Church, of course, has no jurisdiction whatever
in this matter.
“In and through [the] various dispensations, certain
principles, powers, privileges and priesthoods have
been developed. But in the dispensation of the fulness
of times a combination or a fulness, a completeness of
all those dispensations was to be introduced among the
human family. If there was anything pertaining to the
Adamic . . . dispensation, it would be made manifest in
the last days. If there was anything associated with
Enoch and his city, and the gathering together of his
people, . . . it would be manifested in the last days. If
there was anything associated with the Melchizedek
priesthood in all its forms, powers, privileges and
blessings at any time or in any part of the earth, it
would be restored in the last days. . . . For this is the
dispensation of the fulness of times, embracing all other
times, all principles, all powers, all manifestations, all
priesthoods and the powers thereof that have existed in
any age, in any part of the world” (The Gospel Kingdom,
sel. G. Homer Durham [1943], 101–2).

“If any of our members are found to be practicing
plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most
serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are
those so involved in direct violation of the civil law,
they are in violation of the law of this Church. An
article of our faith is binding upon us. It states, ‘We
believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers,
and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining
the law’ (Articles of Faith 1:12). One cannot obey the
law and disobey the law at the same time” (in Conference
Report, Oct. 1998, 92; or Ensign, Nov. 1998, 71).

Have students read Mosiah 26:14–15, 20 and identify
someone else who received this promise (Alma). Read 2 Peter
1:10, 19 and look for two ways Peter referred to this promise
from the Lord. (Making one’s calling and election sure, and
receiving the more sure word of prophecy.) Ask: What
counsel did Peter give in verse 10 that we could strive to
follow? Share the following statement by Elder Bruce R.
McConkie, who was a member of the Quorum of the Twelve:
“To have one’s calling and election made sure is to be
sealed up unto eternal life; it is to have the
unconditional guarantee of exaltation in the highest
heaven of the celestial world; it is to receive the
assurance of godhood; it is, in effect, to have the day
of judgment advanced, so that an inheritance of all
“If any of our members are found to be practicing
plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most
serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are
those so involved in direct violation of the civil law,
they are in violation of the law of this Church. An
article of our faith is binding upon us. It states, ‘We
believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers,
and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining
the law’ (Articles of Faith 1:12). One cannot obey the
law and disobey the law at the same time” (in Conference
Report, Oct. 1998, 92; or Ensign, Nov. 1998, 71).
Nauvoo Period
226

And it does say that the Joseph Smith was living the principal. Now the teacher can take that information and give more information about the wives and their testimonies. As you can now see, consig's daughter must have missed this lesson.

[_Joseph]

"And it does say that the Joseph Smith was living the principal. Now the teacher can take that information and give more information about the wives and their testimonies. As you can now see, consig's daughter must have missed this lesson."
****************************
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And you are sure this particular seminary teacher gave that information to the students and discussed it?

How likely do you really think that is?

33 wives? "to raise seed" - and joe has no kids by all the women? Public denial of plural wives?

Most seminary teachers, just like most BYU religion profs avoid this one like the plague.

[_Themis]

Well, it is in the seminary manual. What the students do with it is up to them and the teacher. Like I said, there is much leeway on how to approach polygamy and the famous quotation by Joseph Smith is there in the manual. A quotation that is used by the critics. There is no reason for it to be in sunday school. As you know most of the lessons are repeats from yesteryear. I don't think that the LDS church feels that it is an uncomfortable subject at all. I just think that they don't think it is necessary.

It is uncomfortable for them, and an embarrassment. This is why they avoid talking much about a practice that was a core principle to the early church.

To read about the women who experienced strong spiritual confirmations about plural marriage can be a real faith promoter.

As I am sure it is in other religions. You lose that faith promoting when you learn some of the circumstances of how they were pressured and manipulated into it, especially if you understand how people can and usually do get these types of experiences in order for their minds to find a solution to get them out of the extremely stressful situations people like Joseph unfairly put them in.

And evenf discussing Emma and her reluctance just puts her as a human being.

Sure. Maybe she needed an angel with a sword. :)

The historical teaching of plural marriage can be very faith promoting,

This is why the manuals are usually inaccurate about church history because faith promotion is more important.

and the seminary manual does that but in a different way.

It brings it up only superficially and in faith promoting ways. This is wrong.

[_Dantana]

Maybe I haven't been paying attn. enough on the boards but, what is the general TBM consensus as to why exactly God instituted P. with Joseph Smith, since it wasn't a male shortage issue?

Jacob 2:30 which doesn't require a shortage. "Raising up seed unto me" could simply be a better chance for children to be raised in a righteous home.

Why did God institute a moratorium instead of maybe moving his group to an area that allowed it?

No reason given.

Why do TBM's tend to shy away from wishing it back....if it became legal again, since it is an eternal and intregal aspect of LDS philosophy?

Multiple possibilities some of which are:

1) They honestly don't look forward to it.
2) They don't accept it as a valid principle; thinking perhaps Joseph Smith made a mistake.
3.) Maintain peace with their wives.

As Fence Sitter asks, Have you checked the children? I haven't, so I can't say, but I have heard it said that women in P marriages tend to have less children per head than if they were in a monogamous marriage.....which wouldn't seem to raise up seed any faster.



And I'm not an expert on this subject either but didn't God/BY. lead his group to the west to escape the influence and jurisdiction of the US gov? Weren't P. colonies sent to Mexico and Canada by God/BY. to avoid US jurisdiction/prosecution? Seems like if God wanted P. instituted that badly he woulda/coulda created an environ for it somewhere.



It just seems odd that this eternal principle which is the core of how the whole system works in becoming gods and creating your own systems, gets so little actual incorporation into real time.



I mean, it seems Joseph Smith, BY and the early leaders were extremely concerned with getting their wife allotment attached to them. Yet 99% of of LDS. membership will never get the chance, unless P. is returned.

Curt

[_DarkHelmet]

I did learn the standad spiel that polygamy was only practiced by a few and that it was a necessity because there were more women than men.

Funny, I never heard the last part of this "spiel" growing up but I did know that Joseph Smith was plurally married. Probably in part because I had read D&C 132.

That's what's so funny about Mormons being shocked to learn Polygamy started with Joseph Smith. Don't people read their scriptures? It's right there in their scripture tote, bound in a beautiful leather cover, with their name embroidered in gold, the official document teaching about polygamy, included when it started. And it says nothing about a shortage of men being the reason. Of course the church is doing a good job of skipping over that part in their meetings, but it is right there for those who read their scriptures. And I admit, I am one of those people who never read and understood D&C 132 while I was TBM.