Atheism: the antithesis of cynicism

[Guest]

There is no god...

Where did organic molecules originate in early earth's history? There are only two options.

Terrestrial origins.

Extraterrestrial origins.

Which is it? And how did these molecules come to be? Is there any element of faith involved in believing that organic molecules originated through abiogenesis?

Regards,
MG

Sorry MG, but from your post it is pretty clear that you don't even know what an organic molecule is. And you are not the first religionist /creationist to show such a lack of understanding of basic high school level science on Mormon message boards.

It is really difficult to take you seriously when it is clear that don't have even a basic grasp of what you are actually saying.

An organic molecule is a molecule that is comprised completely, or in part, of both carbon and hydrogen. Methane is an organic molecule, for example.

Like many organic molecules, methane can be biogenic or non-biogenic. As a biogenic molecule, it might be a gas that is often produced by anaerobic metabolism (digestion) of organic substrates.

As a non-biogenic molecule it was found on primordial Earth (terrestrial origin). Methane is also found in abundance on many of the gas planets and their moons, and is the first organic molecule to be detected on an extrasolar planet (extraterrestrial origin).

So, the answer to your (somewhat silly) question is "both".

And - it turns out that it is possible to distinguish biogenic methane from non-biogenic methane by determining the C-13 to C-12 isotopic ratio of the carbon in the gas.

[_Aristotle Smith]

I always forget the unique situation that I’ve grown up in, where I’ve never really had a strong negative experience with any sort of organized religion. I’ve never had to make really tough choices about leaving a group that constituted a large part of my life. From what I’ve encountered, most other atheists have exit stories and some painful memories attached to organized religion of some sort.

That's probably yet another reason why so many ex-Mormons are atheists, the whole "once bitten, twice shy" reasoning. Of course with something as all encompassing as Mormonism, the bite is very painful, thus the shyness is almost insurmountable.

[_mentalgymnast]

Where did organic molecules originate in early earth's history?

Do you suppose not knowing the answer to this question justifies believing that a supernatural being did it?

Is there any element of faith involved in believing that organic molecules originated through abiogenesis? You, of course, believe in abiogenesis, I would assume. How could you not?

Why?

Regards,
MG

[_EAllusion]

Terrestrial origins.

Extraterrestrial origins.

Which is it? And how did these molecules come to be? Is there any element of faith involved in believing that organic molecules originated through abiogenesis?

Uh, organic chemistry, including biological monomers and polymers, has been found both in meteorites and shown to develop in natural spontaneous reactions. You probably are shooting for something more specific than organic chemistry, like living cells. Abiogensis refers to the development of life, not organic chemistry, after all. Of course, "God did it" isn't really an explanation and your design argument isn't going to fly, but at least get the rudiments of it right first.

Buffalo -

Atheists are just too diverse to say they are "optimists" or "cynics" or whatever as a rule.

[_DrW]

Is there any element of faith involved in believing that organic molecules originated through abiogenesis? You, of course, believe in abiogenesis, I would assume. How could you not?

Why?

Regards,
MG

There you go again.

I predict that this is going to be embarrassing for you.

[_Mad Viking]

Where did organic molecules originate in early earth's history?

Do you suppose not knowing the answer to this question justifies believing that a supernatural being did it?

Is there any element of faith involved in believing that organic molecules originated through abiogenesis?

I know the basics of abiogenesis. Not enough to answer this question with any certainty.

You, of course, believe in abiogenesis, I would assume.

Why would you assume that?

How could you not?

By not knowing enough about it to make a determination.

Now...would you mind answering MY question?

[_mentalgymnast]

It is really difficult to take you seriously when it is clear that don't have even a basic grasp of what you are actually saying.

I'm not asking you to take me seriously in regards to relying on what I'm saying as coming from the mouth of a scientist. That I am not. But as I read through information in articles such as:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

I simply come away with the not so unreasonable inference that it takes a certain degree of faith to believe in abiogenesis.

That's all.

Religiosity relies on faith. So do certain elements of scientific theory. For starters, look at all the possible scenarios and possibilities in the wiki entry I referred to describing how abiogenesis occurred. Amazing.

It seems to me that in order for an atheist to be rock solid in their underpinning "faith" in regards to the "fact" that it is unreasonable to believe in a creator/god of human beings upon the earth, their keystone belief relies on the doctrine that abiogenesis, come hell or high water, is "true".

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

I predict that this is going to be embarrassing for you.

That's not an issue for me. I'm one of those pesky folks that exercise faith but at the same time seek understanding. I'm totally open to new ideas and understandings. My contribution on this thread is simply to put the idea out there that it requires faith to believe in abiogenesis. At least as far as I can tell through my limited understanding.

I haven't come to a point, as you have, where I am always having to defend non-belief.

Go ahead, embarrass me. I'm OK with that. Really.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

Where did organic molecules originate in early earth's history?

Do you suppose not knowing the answer to this question justifies believing that a supernatural being did it?

All I'm sayin' is that when one looks at all the stuff related to theories having to do with abiogenesis it doesn't make God belief any less reasonable.

Regards,
MG

[Guest]

My contribution on this thread is simply to put the idea out there that it requires faith to believe in abiogenesis. At least as far as I can tell through my limited understanding.

Not really. "Faith" isn't an issue with scientific theory.

Abiogenesis is still up in the air as far as science is concerned. No scientist worth his salt will agree to it being true until provable evidence comes forth (even those promoting the theory). There is some good data that supports it, but not enough to make it a fact.

By the way, organic molecules exists outside of the Earth in asteroids, etc. Just an FYI, "organic molecule" refers to almost all molecules that contain carbon atoms. Very common throughout the Universe.

Edited to edify EAllusion.