Atheism: the antithesis of cynicism

[_Blixa]

past traditions based in submission to blind faith just doesn't cut it anymore.
better informed people are simply more likely to make better choices.

Laughably ignorant. There's no one so arrogant as an atheist.

Hoops, please don't generalize about atheists just because Buffalo does.

[_Buffalo]

Hoops, please don't generalize about atheists just because Buffalo does.

I'm not really generalizing about atheists or individual personalities. I'm just saying that by default, atheism is the optimistic position, while theism is pessimistic.

[_stemelbow]

Given the moral deviancy and lack of character and intelligence of god, not believing in him is de facto optimistic.

So you have to consider the explanations of God cynically, to arrive at a de facto optimism? I see you're trying real hard here, Buffalo, to make it appear you have something good beyond others, but in your efforts you simply don't see where your argument fails it appears.

[_Buffalo]

Given the moral deviancy and lack of character and intelligence of god, not believing in him is de facto optimistic.

So you have to consider the explanations of God cynically, to arrive at a de facto optimism? I see you're trying real hard here, Buffalo, to make it appear you have something good beyond others, but in your efforts you simply don't see where your argument fails it appears.

If, after reading the Old Testament you still believe in God, you'd have to be awfully cynical indeed.

[_stemelbow]

If, after reading the Old Testament you still believe in God, you'd have to be awfully cynical indeed.

Ironically, what a cynical view of believers you have. As it is, people believe in God after reading the Old Testament all the time and many of them aren't any more cynical than you, and I wouldn't doubt, after reading this thread, if most of them are far less cyncial than you. But maybe I'm just being a little cynical(-;

[_Some Schmo]

Atheists are just too diverse to say they are "optimists" or "cynics" or whatever as a rule.

This.

I will say, however, that when it comes to discussions about an objective meaning of life/nihilism, or how theists suspect they would behave were it not for their belief in a god, atheists generally come out of them looking far more optimistic. It sounds to me like Simon, for example, would likely kill himself were it not for his belief in the supernatural.

But I wouldn't make a blanket statement about the optimism/pessimism of atheists in general. I've met some pretty pessimistic atheists. Seeing the world for what it is can certainly have that effect on people.

[_Buffalo]

If, after reading the Old Testament you still believe in God, you'd have to be awfully cynical indeed.

Ironically, what a cynical view of believers you have. As it is, people believe in God after reading the Old Testament all the time and many of them aren't any more cynical than you, and I wouldn't doubt, after reading this thread, if most of them are far less cyncial than you. But maybe I'm just being a little cynical(-;

Have you read the Old Testament Stem? What did you think of the parts where Yahweh ordered the murder of thousands of infants and the rape of thousands of little girls?

Call me an optimist, but I'd like to think a monster like that isn't real!

[_stemelbow]

Have you read the Old Testament Stem? What did you think of the parts where Yahweh ordered the murder of thousands of infants and the rape of thousands of little girls?

Call me an optimist, but I'd like to think a monster like that isn't real!

Personally, I take it that God did not order the murders or the rapes, but I'm just an optimist when it comes to that. It seems reasonable for to think, people murdered and raped, sometimes thinking they are doing something good, for some odd reason, and sometimes they added the "well God said to" afterward. I certainly can't account for all the events described in the Old Testament, so I don't see why I should read them so literally.

[_Some Schmo]

I simply come away with the not so unreasonable inference that it takes a certain degree of faith to believe in abiogenesis.

I don't think so.

I wouldn't word it that way, however (i.e. "I believe in abiogenesis"). I would say something like, "The first living cell had to form somehow. Given that I don't know how that happened, some process of abiogenesis, at this point, is the best (only?) explanation we have. But I reserve judgment because ultimately, I don't know."

Where is the element of faith in that? You'd have a point, I think, if I said something like, "We don't know how abiogenesis happened, but I'm certain it did... somehow."

[_Buffalo]

Have you read the Old Testament Stem? What did you think of the parts where Yahweh ordered the murder of thousands of infants and the rape of thousands of little girls?

Call me an optimist, but I'd like to think a monster like that isn't real!

Personally, I take it that God did not order the murders or the rapes, but I'm just an optimist when it comes to that. It seems reasonable for to think, people murdered and raped, sometimes thinking they are doing something good, for some odd reason, and sometimes they added the "well God said to" afterward. I certainly can't account for all the events described in the Old Testament, so I don't see why I should read them so literally.

Then you don't believe in the Bible. There's no metaphorical take on the rape and murder verses. Either it's fact or fiction. You've chosen to believe the latter. Good!

However, that's really just the tip of the iceberg. There's so much more wrong with god.