Where NDEs and out of body experiences come from

[_Buffalo]

It appears being a novice is something rather familiar or even usual for you. From reading your posts I believe it is safe to say that you are a novice at research, comprehension, argumentation, and communication.

None of those things. I'm just a novice when it comes to in-depth knowledge of hokum, pseudo-science and crackpottery. I'm also not used to treating unverifiable anecdotes as scientific research. I leave that to you. :)

[_lostindc]

It appears being a novice is something rather familiar or even usual for you. From reading your posts I believe it is safe to say that you are a novice at research, comprehension, argumentation, and communication.

None of those things. I'm just a novice when it comes to in-depth knowledge of hokum, pseudo-science and crackpottery. I'm also not used to treating unverifiable anecdotes as scientific research. I leave that to you. :)

To go even further, you did not even research the very basics of the topic you intended to discuss. For instance, you pretended to understand Nelson's research, which you displayed not to understand, then you attempted to denounce nderf and other sources that Nelson has deemed credible in his own scholarship. Lastly, you did little to look at the many reviews of Nelson's work and Nelson's own creationist beliefs and how they have effected his research. Sounds like another poster desiring to do little research and hoping that some preliminary research that one knows little about can help support their ideology.

Reading your posts is like reading spam for some sort of Dick Dawkins upcoming book project, you lack originality, research skills, communication, comprehension, and basic argumentation skills. Talking to you makes me feel like I am playing with my food before I eat it whole.

[_Roger]

I hear so many stories like this I would think this is something that could be tested. Place an LED monitor facing up about 2 feet from the ceiling in a trauma/surgery ward and have it randomly display two or three words. If the patient can tell us what the words were, then we might be on to something.

[_lostindc]

I hear so many stories like this I would think this is something that could be tested. Place an LED monitor facing up about 2 feet from the ceiling in a trauma/surgery ward and have it randomly display two or three words. If the patient can tell us what the words were, then we might be on to something.

This exact study is happening, but I am not sure how many positives or hits they will find. If you left your body after dying would you look for a small image on a shelf near the ceiling?

[_Quasimodo]

This exact study is happening, but I am not sure how many positives or hits they will find. If you left your body after dying would you look for a small image on a shelf near the ceiling?

This is a good point, lostindc. Where would your attention be focused? On messages in the room or on your surgery?

[_Themis]

This exact study is happening, but I am not sure how many positives or hits they will find. If you left your body after dying would you look for a small image on a shelf near the ceiling?

I would probably notice a number of things, so if one can leave their body it seems reasonable that they should over time get some hits, especially if it something that is out of the ordinary and easily noticed from the ceiling.

[_lostindc]

This exact study is happening, but I am not sure how many positives or hits they will find. If you left your body after dying would you look for a small image on a shelf near the ceiling?

I would probably notice a number of things, so if one can leave their body it seems reasonable that they should over time get some hits, especially if it something that is out of the ordinary and easily noticed from the ceiling.

That is the theory. From preliminary results, I have heard through the grapevine that indeed a hit or two has happened. The problem is: how many hits are needed to constitute evidence for the OBE?

For instance, if you interview 3,000 patients that experienced cardiac arrest and 20% or 600 claim to have a nde (seems to be the average in past studies) and of the 600 there are 60 or so who claim to be completely out of body but yet in the same reality as those living, then how many saw the target? Of those 60, did they float above their body, below, stand outside of body, etc. If 20 floated above the body, how many of the 20 looked down on the scene and how many were high enough and looked at the target? If they saw the target, while out of body was it something memorable or just a picture of a flower and nothing worth remembering? If it was worth remembering was it forgetable after becoming stable?

With all these variable would 1 or 2 hits of 3000 cardiac patients constitute a positive? I would say yes and I believe this would require further research.

[_Quasimodo]

With all these variable would 1 or 2 hits of 3000 cardiac patients constitute a positive? I would say yes and I believe this would require further research.

Only one would be required to prove the OBE if the message was read and related by the patient and there was no way he or she could have known it ahead of time.

If one person can do it, we all can.

[_Themis]

That is the theory. From preliminary results, I have heard through the grapevine that indeed a hit or two has happened. The problem is: how many hits are needed to constitute evidence for the OBE?

That's a good question. I guess it may depends on the image, picture, or words that might be put up high, such that the patient or hospital staff do not know what they are or even that they are there, and how researchers after go about getting the patients story. If done well I would say only a few would present good evidence that they are leaving their body in some fashion. Now if you can get a few hits, then others could easily follow up the experiment to get more results.

With all these variable would 1 or 2 hits of 3000 cardiac patients constitute a positive? I would say yes and I believe this would require further research.

I would agree that a couple of hits would be enough to suggest further research.

If 20 floated above the body, how many of the 20 looked down on the scene and how many were high enough and looked at the target?

Well further or expanded monitoring of emergency rooms across the world could help increase the chance that if people are leaving their body in some way that they will see this message. I realize that many factors could keep many from seeing this message or picture, but I would think given enough numbers that they should get some hits.

If they saw the target, while out of body was it something memorable or just a picture of a flower and nothing worth remembering?

I would hope researchers would try to get something memorable, say like an odd short worded message.

If it was worth remembering was it forgetable after becoming stable?

Good question. I am not sure, but if they can remember other specific details I see no reason they shouldn't remember seeing a memorable message.

[_Roger]

No doubt the majority would not be "hits" since saving the person's life is the priority, not whether an OBE message was perceived. But just one or two legitimate hits would be enough. The words or images would have to be random and rotate so that no one could cheat or get lucky.