ScienceWhopper:Natural History According to Jeffrey Holland

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_keithb
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Re: ScienceWhopper:Natural History According to Jeffrey Holland

Post by _keithb »

Franktalk wrote:
DrW wrote:Before people decide to base their entire decision making process and worldview on such perceptions, it might be a good idea to look for some confirming physical evidence.


So where is the physical evidence of dark matter and dark energy? Where is the physical evidence that objects smaller than a planck length lose locality? Are you sure you wish to open this can of worms?


Dark Matter: The fact that the galaxies don't fly apart due to rotational inertia. If you calculate the amount of mass in a typical galaxy versus how fast a typical galaxy rotates, the galaxy should be throwing stars into deep space. The fact that it doesn't means that there is extra matter there. Hence, dark matter (because we can't "see" it -- little interaction with photons).

Dark energy: The measurements on type 1a supernovas are what showed the existence of this in the first place. In fact, the scientists that discovered it got the Nobel Prize this year, If I recall correctly. For more information, check out the Wikipedia entry.

Planck Scale: We don't have any direct evidence of this, which is why this remains one of those "unproven hypothesis" that Physics likes to speculate about. Most of the reason why we can't get direct evidence is that we can't accelerate particles to the speeds necessary to probe this length, and likely we won't be able to for thousands of years, unless another way to see the particle can be found besides a particle accelerator. So, I can't explain it to you because there is no empirical evidence one way or another yet -- which is why I put the theory in the basket of things I don't worry about too much.

So, the first two have strong evidence supporting them, the last is an interesting hypothesis that still needs to be proved or disproved.
"Joseph Smith was called as a prophet, dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb" -South Park
_Hoops
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Re: ScienceWhopper:Natural History According to Jeffrey Holland

Post by _Hoops »

DrW wrote:
Why hasn't evolution gotten rid of our vestigial appendix, a feature of human anatomy which clearly causes more harm than good?

There is no rule that says the evolution will always come up with the best solution in every case. For example, evolution resulted in a human eye in which the critical components are actually arranged in the wrong order, while in the octopus eye they are arranged properly. Evolution works with what it is given.

Sometimes humans can give evolution some help. That is why we have dogs, vaccines, food crops, farm animals, and a myriad of other things that are useful because they have been genetically altered (evolved) by humankind.

Humans can control evolution to some large extent, and we should do a better job of it starting with vestigial religion.

Isn't there a difference, an important difference, between things that have been genetically altered by humans and generally accepted machinations of evolution?

If religion is as harmful as you seem to believe, one would think it would have been discarded long ago. Yet it has not been.
_Franktalk
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Re: ScienceWhopper:Natural History According to Jeffrey Holland

Post by _Franktalk »

Keithb,

I know what science says but where is the evidence (direct physical evidence)? This is a guess about dark matter and dark energy. Just because you say so and some other guy gets an award from others who think the same way means nothing. It is a house of cards. Where is the testable evidence?

I will tell you that I will accept dark matter and dark energy as soon as science accepts the fact that religion is tied to a God is fact. I can show an indirect relationship between behavior of humans and God. So when science says God exist then we all can believe in dark stuff as well.
_DrW
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Re: ScienceWhopper:Natural History According to Jeffrey Holland

Post by _DrW »

keithb wrote:
Franktalk wrote:So where is the physical evidence of dark matter and dark energy? Where is the physical evidence that objects smaller than a planck length lose locality? Are you sure you wish to open this can of worms?


Dark Matter: The fact that the galaxies don't fly apart due to rotational inertia. If you calculate the amount of mass in a typical galaxy versus how fast a typical galaxy rotates, the galaxy should be throwing stars into deep space. The fact that it doesn't means that there is extra matter there. Hence, dark matter (because we can't "see" it -- little interaction with photons).

Dark energy: The measurements on type 1a supernovas are what showed the existence of this in the first place. In fact, the scientists that discovered it got the Nobel Prize this year, If I recall correctly. For more information, check out the Wikipedia entry.

Planck Scale: We don't have any direct evidence of this, which is why this remains one of those "unproven hypothesis" that Physics likes to speculate about. Most of the reason why we can't get direct evidence is that we can't accelerate particles to the speeds necessary to probe this length, and likely we won't be able to for thousands of years, unless another way to see the particle can be found besides a particle accelerator. So, I can't explain it to you because there is no empirical evidence one way or another yet -- which is why I put the theory in the basket of things I don't worry about too much.

So, the first two have strong evidence supporting them, the last is an interesting hypothesis that still needs to be proved or disproved.

Thanks, keithb.

Great to have a real physicist to provide authoritative answers to these Dark questions.

These issues are only "cans of worms" to folks who would rather spend their time preaching religion (superstition and myth) than learning about science (facts and reality) - a set of behaviors that is all too common in the US nowadays and doing great damage to our country and the world in general.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_jon
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Re: ScienceWhopper:Natural History According to Jeffrey Holland

Post by _jon »

Franktalk wrote:Where is the testable evidence?


The question that the Maxwell Institute fears the most...
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
_Franktalk
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Re: ScienceWhopper:Natural History According to Jeffrey Holland

Post by _Franktalk »

DrW wrote:Thanks, keithb.

Great to have a real physicist to provide authoritative answers to these Dark questions.

These issues are only "cans of worms" to folks who would rather spend their time preaching religion (superstition and myth) than learning about science (facts and reality) - a set of behaviors that is all too common in the US nowadays and doing great damage to our country and the world in general.


Unlike dynamite, cruise missiles, atomic bombs, poison gas, abortions, gas chambers, eugenics, and the like.
_Some Schmo
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Re: ScienceWhopper:Natural History According to Jeffrey Holland

Post by _Some Schmo »

Franktalk wrote: Unlike dynamite, cruise missiles, atomic bombs, poison gas, abortions, gas chambers, eugenics, and the like.

The tools of religious enforcement? Yeah, I know. Word.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_Franktalk
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Re: ScienceWhopper:Natural History According to Jeffrey Holland

Post by _Franktalk »

Some Schmo wrote:
Franktalk wrote: Unlike dynamite, cruise missiles, atomic bombs, poison gas, abortions, gas chambers, eugenics, and the like.

The tools of religious enforcement? Yeah, I know. Word.


As the world becomes secular the wars seem to be getting bigger. I wonder if there is any relationship?
_jon
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Re: ScienceWhopper:Natural History According to Jeffrey Holland

Post by _jon »

Franktalk wrote:
As the world becomes secular the wars seem to be getting bigger. I wonder if there is any relationship?


Of all the things you could have gone for you went with secularism as the cause of wars escalating. Really?
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
_Some Schmo
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Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:59 pm

Re: ScienceWhopper:Natural History According to Jeffrey Holland

Post by _Some Schmo »

Franktalk wrote:As the world becomes secular the wars seem to be getting bigger. I wonder if there is any relationship?

Dude, it's ok... you already have no credibility. It's dead. Continuing to beat the hell out of it accomplishes nothing.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
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