Mad Viking wrote:HEAVENLY FATHER: Remember those statement you made about black people and race mixing?
Brigham: I sure do God... I was just teaching your flock your will.
HEAVENLY FATHER: Umm... yeah... see that's the problem. What you said isn't actually true. That's not really how I feel about the matter. I'm actually cool with it. They're all my children and I don't really care about race. Now look... I don't fault you... You're just a man, and you're living in a time where those attitudes are prevelant. However, you've got to set the record straight about my stance on this issue. OK?
Like I said in the other post, this assumes that God doesn't have anything better to do with His time than correct Brigham's position. I think it's totally possible that in God's plan for taking His message to the world He realized that the best way to do that was through Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, even though He was well aware of Brigham's racist attitudes, and that He was also aware that the best time to remove the racist positions from the organization Brigham preserved was 1978.
So it is your belief that God will allow Prophets to preach false doctrine as long as all's well that end's well? You realise that is an apostate belief don't you?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
KevinSim wrote:At the risk of starting a firestorm, I'm going to state my disagreement with Stem here. I favored Proposition 8, and I don't apologize for it. When LDS leaders in our ward said they were looking for people to help promote Proposition 8 I offered my services, though apparently they had the help they needed because nobody ever asked me to do anything.
Should it be legal for a gay couple to marry in the United States? Yes! Of course it should be legal! For a nation that has made as much civil rights progress as the US has, one of the next steps should obviously be to allow gay couples to marry! .
These two paragraphs seem to comprehensively contradict each other. In the first paragraph you strongly support the Church in fighting against making same sex marriage legal. In the second you state strong support for making same sex marriage legal. Am I confused or are you?
Bump
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Here in America we enjoy freedom of religion, unless you're Mormon. Mormonism is like the mafia, once you're in there is no leaving "The Family".
There are people here who say that Mormonism isn't a cult. Really? Then why can't people leave? Why would anyone feel that living a lie is the best option?
There are people here who say the Mormonism isn't harmful. I guess if you don't mind living a lie, surrounded by brainwashed family members and paying for it all with time and money, then Mormonism isn't harmful.
Hades wrote:Here in America we enjoy freedom of religion, unless you're Mormon. Mormonism is like the mafia, once you're in there is no leaving "The Family".
There are people here who say that Mormonism isn't a cult. Really? Then why can't people leave? Why would anyone feel that living a lie is the best option?
Well to paint it as though its mafia like is pretty disengenuous. Its not like people who leave have to assume a new identity or go in hiding, or fear death. Surely pressure from those who love you can be high.
There are people here who say the Mormonism isn't harmful. I guess if you don't mind living a lie, surrounded by brainwashed family members and paying for it all with time and money, then Mormonism isn't harmful.
Once you get to the point of seeing your family members who you seem to condescend toward by calling them brainwashed and that they are living a lie, then I think you'll get to the point of having a wonderful family again.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
KevinSim wrote:Then the obvious conclusion is that having an organization that people wouldn't consider racist was not a high priority for God for those "generations."
This really is not about the issue of God commanding a priesthood ban which is what the church has taught, and even the OD2 supports this. God stopping the leaders from making a mistake and saying God did it would avoid important problems. This does not mean that God would then need to get rid of all racism of the church at that time.
Some people get the idea that everything that is good, God is going to do.
The problem here is that some member want to think God didn't institute the ban, but make no sense why if this is so that God would not correct people like BY. It would be easy to do, and it would not mean going out and preaching to black communities. God supposedly communicated with Joseph all the time, but can't be seen on a mistake of this magnitude. It really is poor reasoning, and goes against what the church teaches.
Racism is bad, so God would never have His church involved in racism.
The issue is about the priesthood ban, not all racism.
KevinSim wrote:I think I agree with Hoops and Ceeboo here. If I were to ever conclude that God wants me out of the LDS Church, I would owe it to my wife to go to her and honestly tell her that. At that point she might very possibly tell me to pack my things and leave, and end up divorcing me. Still, it would be the right thing to do.
Better to honestly tell her over time, being fair to her and giving her time to deal with the reasons why you feel the way you do before she knows what you feel. If he had brought her on the journey from the beginning it wouldn't be a problem now. I am not sure why people thimnk telling all at once is the only way to be honest, and it's not the best way in this case most of the time.
But I am more committed to God than I am to her.
If his wife thinks the same way, all the better reason not to open up all at once till she has time to digest the information. This type of person would most likely leave them.
If God let's his church have all kinds of human-driven errors in it then why is the church so resistant to change? Why do members believe that the priesthood ban on women is from god? For the same type of reasons members believes the priesthood ban on blacks was from god.
hmmm
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
KevinSim wrote:Like I said in the other post, this assumes that God doesn't have anything better to do with His time than correct Brigham's position.
You have got to be kidding me. God is to busy then to correct the one guy who is suppose to receive instructions from. Why would God not correct soemthing the prophets are saying he ordered. IS this the mental games people play in order to think God was not the racist. LOL
I think it's totally possible that in God's plan for taking His message to the world He realized that the best way to do that was through Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, even though He was well aware of Brigham's racist attitudes, and that He was also aware that the best time to remove the racist positions from the organization Brigham preserved was 1978.
Lets stop the BS. The Bible itself has a story of correcting Peter with his ideas that only the Jews should get the gospel. If he can correct him, it wouldn't be that hard to correct BY, and would be important to do so.