Buffalo wrote:That's not much of a promise of something good. I mean, believers have been awaiting the imminent return of Jesus since Paul the apostle. It's obvious he's not coming.
huh? Because people have awaited his return and He has yet to return that means He's not coming? Alright. Not much to say there. You seem to disagree and don't believe. yep. I got that, Buffalo.
Stem, from a practical standpoint, what does the LDS faith offer people that atheism doesn't. I mean, ignore the somedays and the wishes. What does it offer right now?
I've explained in my OP for one thing. And as it is the benefits largely of atonement are ubiquitous. even Atheists unknowingly benefit from it. The only possibility as I see it for unity and love is atonement. Atheism as it is doesn't have anything to foster that kind of love, but that doesn't mean atheists don't or can't benefit from it. The future unity and love is what drives hope for me. I can't help that the benefits will largely be seen hereafter.
The only thing I can think of is a sense of community. A double edged sword.
Well good..that's not where I'm headed with my thinking.
And regarding happiness, most Mormons have always been believers of some stripe or another - and most are lifelong Mormons. They really wouldn't know.
Wouldn't know what?
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
My reasons most often include personal spiritual experience. I can't do much but put it into words for you which words are most often rejected twisted or misunderstood. Its really not the point I'm going for in this thread though.
stemelbow wrote:Useful for everyone?
Of course not everyone, as I've said.
stemelbow wrote:The atonement is necessary if the LDS religion is true? Uh... yeah... IF...
Exactly "IF".
stemelbow wrote:I wasn't filled with dread before I existed. I won't be filled with dread when I don't.
Good for you.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
Buffalo wrote:What sort of unity has the LDS faith contributed to the world so far, Stem?
I'm sure what you mean by "what sort?" But I'll answer what I assume you mean. It is quite common for LDS to see each other as family--as bros and sisters. I don't know if too many LDS are focused enough or wise enough to stick with that, but on it I have seen and witnessed many stories wherein LDS embrace each other as they unite in faith. The contribution is pretty individual. its pretty small in that respect, but on this little htings go along way. My point of course, ultimately, that the faith itself offers a solution that is not found elsewhere--afterall most of the maintream concept of Christianity suggests many to most people will not eternally be united--many to most will suffer endlessly in hell. On this atonement is quite more effective, and quite more universal for LDS than others.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
Buffalo wrote:What sort of unity has the LDS faith contributed to the world so far, Stem?
I'm sure what you mean by "what sort?" But I'll answer what I assume you mean. It is quite common for LDS to see each other as family--as bros and sisters. I don't know if too many LDS are focused enough or wise enough to stick with that, but on it I have seen and witnessed many stories wherein LDS embrace each other as they unite in faith. The contribution is pretty individual. its pretty small in that respect, but on this little htings go along way. My point of course, ultimately, that the faith itself offers a solution that is not found elsewhere--afterall most of the maintream concept of Christianity suggests many to most people will not eternally be united--many to most will suffer endlessly in hell. On this atonement is quite more effective, and quite more universal for LDS than others.
Stem, you realise that, from a Mormon point of view, you will only be eternally united with the people who perform to the same level of valiance as you do. This who perform better or worse will end up in different kingdoms - which means you are exceptionally unlikely to have complete families together in the hereafter.
And, being candid with yourself, how many members of your Ward can you say you are closely united with in faith, to the point where you treat them and they treat you (all the time not just on Sunday) as actual brother and sister?
As I understand most other religions preach that there is eternal life and most people will be there together - which religion preaches that 'many to most people will suffer endlessly in hell?'
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)
Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
jon wrote:Stem, you realise that, from a Mormon point of view, you will only be eternally united with the people who perform to the same level of valiance as you do. This who perform better or worse will end up in different kingdoms - which means you are exceptionally unlikely to have complete families together in the hereafter.
The united love and purpose will persist among us all, as I see it though. Its not like I'll quibble with you about unimportant matters like "how did Joseph Smith translate the Book of Mormon?" We'll all know. We'll all happily love good and be opposed to disunity and hate.
And, being candid with yourself, how many members of your Ward can you say you are closely united with in faith, to the point where you treat them and they treat you (all the time not just on Sunday) as actual brother and sister?
I can't think of one that I don't feel like this about.
As I understand most other religions preach that there is eternal life and most people will be there together - which religion preaches that 'many to most people will suffer endlessly in hell?'
The mainstream form of Christianity of course.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
stemelbow wrote:huh? Because people have awaited his return and He has yet to return that means He's not coming? all right. Not much to say there. You seem to disagree and don't believe. yep. I got that, Buffalo.
I've explained in my OP for one thing. And as it is the benefits largely of atonement are ubiquitous. even Atheists unknowingly benefit from it. The only possibility as I see it for unity and love is atonement. Atheism as it is doesn't have anything to foster that kind of love, but that doesn't mean atheists don't or can't benefit from it. The future unity and love is what drives hope for me. I can't help that the benefits will largely be seen hereafter.
Well good..that's not where I'm headed with my thinking.
Wouldn't know what?
Stem, both Jesus and Paul thought that they end would be within the first century.
What concrete benefits does the atonement offer, Stem? You seem to be avoiding my question. I'm talking real world stuff you can measure, not pie in the sky wishful thinking. Or if you must stick with pie in the sky fantasy, at least please be specific about what you mean.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Buffalo wrote:What sort of unity has the LDS faith contributed to the world so far, Stem?
I'm sure what you mean by "what sort?" But I'll answer what I assume you mean. It is quite common for LDS to see each other as family--as bros and sisters. I don't know if too many LDS are focused enough or wise enough to stick with that, but on it I have seen and witnessed many stories wherein LDS embrace each other as they unite in faith. The contribution is pretty individual. its pretty small in that respect, but on this little htings go along way. My point of course, ultimately, that the faith itself offers a solution that is not found elsewhere--afterall most of the maintream concept of Christianity suggests many to most people will not eternally be united--many to most will suffer endlessly in hell. On this atonement is quite more effective, and quite more universal for LDS than others.
Stem, if Mormonism didn't exist, don't you think that the people currently in Mormonism would be united with other people in some other faith? Or some other hobby? It doesn't sound like Mormonism has contributed any net unity at all to the world - it's simply created yet another religious division.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.