My NOM roadmap: feedback please

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_quark
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Re: My NOM roadmap: feedback please

Post by _quark »

LDSToronto wrote:My friend, let me give you some words of support where others may not agree with your decision.

The church is built on a fictional foundation. Because the foundation is fictional, I see nothing incongruous with presenting a fictional persona to the church to gain the best possible life for yourself and for your family. This includes statements of temple-worthiness.

That should ease your inner self. As for your outer self, well, I'm about to expose you to the greatest secret found within Mormon culture, and it is this: no matter how many callings your reject, no matter how little tithing you pay, no matter how often you wear Joe Boxers instead of the mystical G's, if you attend church with regularity, you will be considered 'OK and active' by the vast majority of members. And no one will bother you. In fact, you can be that edgy guy, the one with the goatee and never wears a suit jacket. As long as you are there most weeks, you will be pass the sniff test.

Best wishes to you in your life and in your marriage. You will find happiness in this choice.

H.

LDSToronto,

Such a kind-hearted post deserves my thorough attention and sincere response. What you saw above was my true story, laced with a feeble attempt at satire. In many ways, the NOM is forced into a corner - to be like Vincent Gigante, performing an elaborate act to avoid prosecution (by the Mormon authorty).

Since you caught me with such sincerety, I am forced to brutal honesty. The situation I find myself in is this: my wife and I have both left the correlated path we grew up with. We have lived our entire marriage never, ever disagreeing on a single bit of holy doctrine. Our testimonies were in sync. Now that we left the Garden of Eden, we are free agents, to think in whatever manner suits us. We are wild horses, set loose to roam the vast fields of Wyoming. We go spiritually where gravity leads us. Much of my childhood is wrapped up in my spiritual tendancies. There is a reason certain images and works of art touch me in ways that differ vastly now from those of my wife. There are reasons she sees Church history differently than I do. There are reasons some of Joseph Smith's mistakes pain me more deeply than they do her. This is just who I am and I can't change it.

So, here I am, left with a different view point than my wife. My feelings for her remain the same as always. I married her for love and see no other way than with her. I've begun to ask myself, "How can I translate my spirituality to complement hers?" It is a challenging question for me.

She will bring up an idea that I wholeheartedly disagree with and I strain myself to stay silent. After some effort, I give in and speak my mind and then we lose the synergy. Things begin to unravel and frustration builds. This discord brings pain and hopelessness.

Since spirituality is a mind structure, I feel that there should be a way to regain the completeness of thought between us. There must be a way that I can keep my ideas and she, hers, without destroying what we share. I think many people around the world do this successfully but it is hard for us because we are so inexperienced in being free religious thinkers.

Anyway, I think I'm rambling.
_quark
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Re: My NOM roadmap: feedback please

Post by _quark »

moksha wrote:
quark wrote: When asked if I believe in Heavenly Father, I will translate that to mean the Divine Mother Mary and exclaim, "With all my heart, Mr. Bishop!".


If that is what you truly believe to be God, then the best answer is, "I truly believe in God". However, the LDS Church is clearly part of the Christian tradition and a belief in that God is the desired answer to that question.

This is what I don't understand. Why does the Christian mindset of today have the right to dictate what I believe to be God? They have the audacity to make God in a way that suits them so why the hell can't I?

*And*, how in the world is believing in the God Mother Mary an un-Christian idea, assumting that is what you imply? Why can't I see God in this: Image

?
_Madison54
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Re: My NOM roadmap: feedback please

Post by _Madison54 »

quark,
I think I get what you are saying now (after reading your long "rambling" post.... :) )

I really believe that you have to be honest with your feelings and beliefs even when they disagree with your wife's. Otherwise you cannot have an honest relationship. Maybe you can have a peaceful relationship, but it won't be genuine if you pretend to always agree with her.

Both my husband and I no longer believe in the Mormon Church and we will never go back to attending. Since we left, we have both had to find our own "truths" or at least what feels right for us as far as "religious" beliefs or "spiritual" beliefs.

I have to tell you that we do not agree at all now on what we believe. I still believe that there is a Creator and that we will be together after this life. He does not believe in any type of a "God" and believes there is nothing after this life. BUT, we have some of the most awesome discussions on spiritual matters and feelings....exploring each others thoughts and emotions, etc. We rarely agree but we always respect the others opinion and we do not fight over this. If anything, this has brought us closer because we feel we can now open up and reveal our innermost thoughts without being judged by a TBM spouse.

Don't just turn into a "yes man" to keep the peace. How will she know when you are being honest and when you aren't? I would hate it if my husband did this!! You can disagree and still continue to become closer and strengthen your relationship.
_Madison54
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Re: My NOM roadmap: feedback please

Post by _Madison54 »

quark wrote:This is what I don't understand. Why does the Christian mindset of today have the right to dictate what I believe to be God? They have the audacity to make God in a way that suits them so why the hell can't I?

You won't be dealing with the "Christian mindset of today" you will be dealing with the "Mormon mindset of today" when you answer that question in a temple recommend interview.
_why me
_Emeritus
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Re: My NOM roadmap: feedback please

Post by _why me »

quark wrote:The Context: my wife and I sopped going to church a few years ago due to our losing our life-long testimonies after discovering crazy historical s***. Recently, my wife has decided she would be happier with our family involved in the church full time. The reasons for her desire matter not so don't ask! (thanks). Suffice it to say that her reasons are reasonable. My number 1 priority is to have respect and understanding in the home. I plan to comply with my wife's wishes in a positive way. Obviously, this poses a challenge for the non-believer. I'm convinced it can be done, so help me God. Here it is:



First when you go to church, keep an open mind. Second, understand that it all can be true and you are wrong. Third, begin to see your wife's point of view and that maybe she is right. Fourth, don't listen to the crap you will get from critic posters on this site but listen to your own heart that is cleared of all the crap you have read on this forum. Then, you may have a chance to be happy with your choice to be with your wife in church.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_why me
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Re: My NOM roadmap: feedback please

Post by _why me »

quark wrote:This is what I don't understand. Why does the Christian mindset of today have the right to dictate what I believe to be God? They have the audacity to make God in a way that suits them so why the hell can't I?
?

It doesn't since the christian mindset can be corrupted. Many christian churches have rejected the teachings of the new testament and have allowed their flock to live in anarchy when it comes to following the commandments of god. Read the new testament, and follow the writers of the new testament and you will be fine and very close to LDS teachings.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_Jhall118
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Re: My NOM roadmap: feedback please

Post by _Jhall118 »

Yeah, I see an awful lot of "I am doing this for my wife" and seeing very little "my wife is doing this for me". Get some balls already. If I knew my wife was pretending to not believe to relieve tension, I would feel lied to and betrayed. I don't want someone I love and care for to "go through" the motions. I also don't want them to feel like they ever have to make BIG decisions the way I want them to.

I guess we just have different relationships.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus."

-Thomas Jefferson
_Ceeboo
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Re: My NOM roadmap: feedback please

Post by _Ceeboo »

Jhall118 wrote:

I guess we just have different relationships.


Geeez, I certainly hope so!

(If not, this thread would be a very akward place for the author of the OP to discover this)


Peace,
Ceeboo
_Rambo
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Re: My NOM roadmap: feedback please

Post by _Rambo »

why me wrote:
Fourth, don't listen to the crap you will get from critic posters on this site but listen to your own heart that is cleared of all the crap you have read on this forum.


One thing you have to remember about why me is he does not know a lot about the Mormon culture at all. Most of us have gone to church way longer than him.

He doesn't even go to church and I think he goes to the Catholic church.

It's actually pretty funny seeing a active Catholic defend Mormonism. Who would've thought!
_keithb
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Re: My NOM roadmap: feedback please

Post by _keithb »

quark,

Have you visitied the NOM message board yet? This is an entire group specifically devoted to just the kind of lifestyle that you're proposing. I post over there from time to time, and I have actually met some of the people in real life. For the most part, they seem like really cool people. The address is http://www.newordermormon.org if you want to check it out.

In any case, good luck with your journey. I am single, so I answer to no one about my beliefs. :)
"Joseph Smith was called as a prophet, dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb" -South Park
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