Joseph Smith's Personal Claim to Fame.

[_why me]

Also, as a fraudster, he would be constantly thinking that someone would discover the fraud. This would be his major concern and the safeguards necessary to keep the fraud going. Also, he could not have known that after his death one of his follow fraudsters would blow the whistle.

Also, while he was in liberty jail, he seemed to have absolutely no concern that emma or any of the witnesses to the Book of Mormon would now come clean knowing that Joseph Smith was facing execution for treason. If I were emma, I would have made a deal with the law enforcement to spare my husband's life if she were to come clean with the fraud.

For Joseph who saw his prophethood for what it was, would naturally assume that god would not let his name be forgotten among the inhabitants of the earth and when his name was mentioned, both good and evil would come forth from the mouths of the people, as it does here on this forum.

[_Themis]

Also, Joseph's name is a polarizing name for many people, especially now that Mormons are making a name for themselves. Joseph who was a product of his time could not foresee a time well over a hundred years later that his name would still be out there among the nations for good and for evil.

His name was already known for both in many nations when it was recorded. The same can be said of many many people in history. He had started a religion. Why would he not expect a religion which was already successful not to exist in a hundred years or more. There we already thousand's of examples. He also made a very arrogant boast about his followers not leaving him like they did Jesus and everyone else.

If I were him, I would see my name dying out with me with perhaps a little mention in the newspapers for a year or so before I am forgotten, if I were a fraudster.

You and I might because we are not known. He was already. Religions are THE best way to have your name remembered long after one is dead. Nothing else compares. Is this really the illogic you want to keep spewing.

[_Darth J]

If we listen to bill maher his name is certainly being had for good and evil. I don't hear Maher talking about mary baker eddy or for that matter any other religious figure except Joseph Smith as he clasifies Joseph Smith with bernie magdoff.

Oh, and Why Me:

There is no current Christian Scientist running for president. There are two Mormons. Bill Maher talks about political stuff every now and then, if you were not aware of that.

Also, let me disabuse you of your idea that Bill Maher singles out Mormonism when he makes fun of religion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religulous

[_why me]

You don't get to have it both ways. Either the Mormons were ignored or they were persecuted. Which one do you want it to be?

You are also following Mentalgymnast's question-begging, and adding equivocation to it. What do you mean by "that time:" the time when a third party wrote this statement in Joseph Smith's voice, or the uncorroborated time when Moroni allegedly said this to Joseph Smith about a decade and a half prior?

Joseph Smith was speaking of the future and just how his name would be remembered. He was speaking of his own present moment.

Most everything that we have from Joseph Smith is from a second hand source. Joseph Smith was not that concerned about his own place in the world. He knew what he had to do and he did it. Now it would be wonderful to have more in his own hand. But we don't. So with almost everything that we have from him, we can say did he say it or didn't he.

[_Themis]

Also, as a fraudster, he would be constantly thinking that someone would discover the fraud. This would be his major concern and the safeguards necessary to keep the fraud going. Also, he could not have known that after his death one of his follow fraudsters would blow the whistle.

Also, while he was in liberty jail, he seemed to have absolutely no concern that emma or any of the witnesses to the Book of Mormon would now come clean knowing that Joseph Smith was facing execution for treason. If I were emma, I would have made a deal with the law enforcement to spare my husband's life if she were to come clean with the fraud.

For Joseph who saw his prophethood for what it was, would naturally assume that god would not let his name be forgotten among the inhabitants of the earth and when his name was mentioned, both good and evil would come forth from the mouths of the people, as it does here on this forum.

How is one supposed to comment on one of the most illogical posts I have read. Do you even think before you post, or just make it up as you go?

[_why me]

If we listen to bill maher his name is certainly being had for good and evil. I don't hear Maher talking about mary baker eddy or for that matter any other religious figure except Joseph Smith as he clasifies Joseph Smith with bernie magdoff.

Oh, and Why Me:

There is no current Christian Scientist running for president. There are two Mormons. Bill Maher talks about political stuff every now and then, if you were not aware of that.

Also, let me disabuse you of your idea that Bill Maher singles out Mormonism when he makes fun of religion:

And I can assure you that no one would single out mary baker eddy and claim that she was a charleton and a fraud and compare her with bernie magdoff as maher did with Joseph Smith. Bill was not making fun, he was mean and insensitive to the Mormons who believe in their faith. And that is not making fun.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw5Q6y2fTI8

start from the 6:40 mark. There is also a thread about this now. The OP mentions Cornel West in the subject matter.

[_Darth J]

Also, as a fraudster, he would be constantly thinking that someone would discover the fraud. This would be his major concern and the safeguards necessary to keep the fraud going. Also, he could not have known that after his death one of his follow fraudsters would blow the whistle.

Um, Why Me.......

One of the cardinal presenting behaviors of both con men and compulsive liars is that they think they won't get caught.

Charles Ponzi, for example, continued to proclaim his innocence years after he had been sent to prison and deported.

Also, the credence of one's followers is not probative that one's claims are objectively true.

And why would Joseph Smith care what happened after he died, anyway?

Also, while he was in liberty jail, he seemed to have absolutely no concern that emma or any of the witnesses to the Book of Mormon would now come clean knowing that Joseph Smith was facing execution for treason. If I were emma, I would have made a deal with the law enforcement to spare my husband's life if she were to come clean with the fraud.

That's because you're an idiot, and you think that admitting to falsifying a religion is a defense to treason (an admission by someone other than the defendant, no less).

For Joseph who saw his prophethood for what it was, would naturally assume that god would not let his name be forgotten among the inhabitants of the earth and when his name was mentioned, both good and evil would come forth from the mouths of the people, as it does here on this forum.

He did indeed see his prophethood for what it was: self-aggrandizement, which is what this prophecy (whoever wrote it) is about.

[_why me]

Also, as a fraudster, he would be constantly thinking that someone would discover the fraud. This would be his major concern and the safeguards necessary to keep the fraud going. Also, he could not have known that after his death one of his follow fraudsters would blow the whistle.

Also, while he was in liberty jail, he seemed to have absolutely no concern that emma or any of the witnesses to the Book of Mormon would now come clean knowing that Joseph Smith was facing execution for treason. If I were emma, I would have made a deal with the law enforcement to spare my husband's life if she were to come clean with the fraud.

For Joseph who saw his prophethood for what it was, would naturally assume that god would not let his name be forgotten among the inhabitants of the earth and when his name was mentioned, both good and evil would come forth from the mouths of the people, as it does here on this forum.

How is one supposed to comment on one of the most illogical posts I have read. Do you even think before you post, or just make it up as you go?

Maybe it went over your head. Read the post slowly and with some thought. And put yourself as a fraudster in jail with your follow fraudsters free as a bird and some of these follow fraudsters had abandoned you already. What would you be thinking in prison facing death as he did in liberty jail. if you were Joseph Smith?

[_Darth J]

And I can assure you that no one would single out mary baker eddy and claim that she was a charleton and a fraud and compare her with bernie magdoff as maher did with Joseph Smith.

That's right. Nobody has ever claimed that Mary Baker Eddy was a charlatan.

Bill was not making fun, he was mean and insensitive to the Mormons who believe in their faith. And that is not making fun.

In other words, he was ridiculing Mormons, which means he was making fun of them. http://thesaurus.com/browse/ridicule

[_Darth J]

Maybe it went over your head. Read the post slowly and with some thought. And put yourself as a fraudster in jail with your follow fraudsters free as a bird and some of these follow fraudsters had abandoned you already. What would you be thinking in prison facing death as he did in liberty jail. if you were Joseph Smith?

1. You are assuming without evidence that the people to whom you refer were accomplices in the fraud, rather than victims of it.

2. You are ignoring the reality that if they were aware of the fraud, they would be implicating themselves as accomplices if they rolled over on Joseph Smith.

3. You are operating under the mistaken idea that the truth of the Book of Mormon and/or Mormonism in general was relevant to getting him out of jail or keeping him in. (If he was, per Mormon dogma, in jail because of "persecution," his persecutors already believed he was a fraudster.)