Will This Election Be the Mormon Breakthrough?

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_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
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Will This Election Be the Mormon Breakthrough?

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Interesting opinion piece by Harold Bloom:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/13/opini ... ef=opinion

THIS fall, we behold omens that will darken a year hence in the final phase of President Obama’s campaign for a second term. His likely opponent, the Mormon Mitt Romney, will be a pioneer figure whatever the outcome, since no previous member of that very American church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has ever secured a major-party nomination. Even should Mr. Obama triumph, a crucial precedent will have been established.

Mr. Romney, earnest and staid, who is deep within the labyrinthine Mormon hierarchy, is directly descended from an early follower of the founding prophet Joseph Smith, whose highly original revelation was as much a departure from historical Christianity as Islam was and is. But then, so in fact are most manifestations of what is now called religion in the United States, including the Southern Baptist Convention, the Assemblies of God Pentecostalists and even our mainline Protestant denominations.

However, should Mr. Romney be elected president, Smith’s dream of a Mormon Kingdom of God in America would not be fulfilled, since the 21st-century Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has little resemblance to its 19th-century precursor. The current head of the Mormon Church, Thomas S. Monson, known to his followers as “prophet, seer and revelator,” is indistinguishable from the secular plutocratic oligarchs who exercise power in our supposed democracy.

The Salt Lake City empire of corporate greed has little enough in common with the visions of Joseph Smith. The oligarchs of Salt Lake City, who sponsor Mr. Romney, betray what ought to have been their own religious heritage. Though I read Christopher Hitchens with pleasure, his characterization of Joseph Smith as “a fraud and conjuror” is inadequate. A superb trickster and protean personality, Smith was a religious genius, uniquely able to craft a story capable of turning a self-invented faith into a people now as numerous as the Jews, in America and abroad. According to the church, about six million American citizens are Mormons, and there are more than eight million converts in Asia, Africa and elsewhere.

Persuasively redefining Christianity has been a pastime through the ages, yet the American difference is brazen. What I call the American Religion, and by that I mean nearly all religions in this country, socially manifests itself as the Emancipation of Selfishness. Our Great Emancipator of Selfishness, President Ronald Reagan, refreshingly evaded the rhetoric of religion, but has been appropriated anyway as the archangel of American spiritualized greed.


Much more for those interested.
_sock puppet
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Re: Will This Election Be the Mormon Breakthrough?

Post by _sock puppet »

To the title, yes. No matter the outcome of the nomination race.
_Jason Bourne
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Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Re: Will This Election Be the Mormon Breakthrough?

Post by _Jason Bourne »

sock puppet wrote:To the title, yes. No matter the outcome of the nomination race.


Expound some more on this please.
_sock puppet
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Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: Will This Election Be the Mormon Breakthrough?

Post by _sock puppet »

Jason Bourne wrote:
sock puppet wrote:To the title, yes. No matter the outcome of the nomination race.


Expound some more on this please.

Suppose Romney is not the nominee, but Gingrich is. It will start a national dialogue on whether Romney was denied by the Republican primary voters because of his religion. After all, Republicans have a tradition of wasting nominations on who's next (Bob Dole in '96, John McCain in '08). Even when the Republicans nominate the presidential winner, it is often this way--e.g., Reagan had to wait until '80, couldn't get the nomination in '76. And of course Bush 41 advanced from VP to the nomination in '88. So if Romney, who entered the race this time as the presumptive nominee, loses it, the post-mortems will prominently blame it on America's 'religious intolerance'.

I disagree. I think if Romney fails to snag the nomination, it will be for the same reason John Kerry could not win the general election in '04: voters were left wondering what he stood for apart from his reminding us he was not Bush 43.

Romney is an opportunist, even more prominently than being a Mormon. Political, self-aggrandizing ambition ooze from the man. Even though I've mostly compared him to John Kerry, Romney more resembles Al Gore Jr. in this regard. Obama is genuine, and the electorate will re-elect him rather than go with Romney in a general election, even if the voters have to hold their noses over Obama's record and policies when pulling the lever for him in '12. Obama will put himself on the line, warts and all. Romney will never reveal the true self, because even Romney doesn't know who it is and would not take that risk. Mormons are not particularly known for their introspection, after all.

The Republicans will waste another nomination and ensure an Obama second term if the Republicans go with Romney. He'd lead in the polls until about Oct 10-15, 2012, when Obama would over take Romney and march on to about a 4-5% point victory of the popular vote.
_bcspace
_Emeritus
Posts: 18534
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:48 pm

Re: Will This Election Be the Mormon Breakthrough?

Post by _bcspace »

An antiMormon antiGOP hit piece repleat with yellow journalism in all it's regalia.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
_Emeritus
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Re: Will This Election Be the Mormon Breakthrough?

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Well, I can tell you after having lived in the South for so many years that a Mormon will not carry their electoral votes. If the Republicans nominate Romney for President their only hope is he picks up Marco Rubio as a VP so he can carry Florida. He'll lose the South.. And that's something they're considering strongly as this thing works itself out.

Me?

I think Romney is the best Statesman we can offer, and I'd vote for him as long as he chooses a VP nominee wisely.

V/R
Dr. Cam
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_sock puppet
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Re: Will This Election Be the Mormon Breakthrough?

Post by _sock puppet »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Well, I can tell you after having lived in the South for so many years that a Mormon will not carry their electoral votes. If the Republicans nominate Romney for President their only hope is he picks up Marco Rubio as a VP so he can carry Florida. He'll lose the South.. And that's something they're considering strongly as this thing works itself out.

* * *

V/R
Dr. Cam

I agree. And the Obama re-election campaign is focused heavily on this fact. Florida, NC, and Virginia will all go Obama if Romney is nominated. The vote the other night on the public employee union referendum in Ohio ought to put the Republicans on notice that 2012 is not going to be a cakewalk, despite his low approval numbers right now. The mid-west is starting to swing back over to Obama. If he gets Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, Virginia and North Carolina, the Republican nominee can kiss his own butt goodbye.

Other states to watch are Colorado, Nevada, and New Mexico. Whomever is the Republican nominee is, he (or she) needs to focus on these states and Pennsylvania and Michigan (and that's where Romney would be strong). They should put up a straw man campaign--not much nominee time--in Virginia, and force Obama to focus a lot of his resources there.

Electorally, it is still a Democrat's gambit.
_WheatThins
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Re: Will This Election Be the Mormon Breakthrough?

Post by _WheatThins »

sock puppet wrote:
Romney is an opportunist, even more prominently than being a Mormon. Political, self-aggrandizing ambition ooze from the man. Even though I've mostly compared him to John Kerry, Romney more resembles Al Gore Jr. in this regard. .


Romney would be more genuine if he wasn't surrounded by a bunch of wack job neocons. He's trying to play smart by either seeming wishywashy or completely silent when it comes to his campaign. He's thinking farther down the election road (to far some might say) than his other candidates because he knows( or is relativly sure) that this will be his year to be the republican nominee, because in the end the people voting in the primaries will have little or no say in the nomination as the party leadership and major players in it really have the most say. All he is counting on is that people will still be angry at Obama ( and i think they will be still) and simply go vote for him.
Shiggydiggy!
_sock puppet
_Emeritus
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Re: Will This Election Be the Mormon Breakthrough?

Post by _sock puppet »

WheatThins wrote:
sock puppet wrote:
Romney is an opportunist, even more prominently than being a Mormon. Political, self-aggrandizing ambition ooze from the man. Even though I've mostly compared him to John Kerry, Romney more resembles Al Gore Jr. in this regard. .


Romney would be more genuine if he wasn't surrounded by a bunch of wack job neocons. He's trying to play smart by either seeming wishywashy or completely silent when it comes to his campaign. He's thinking farther down the election road (to far some might say) than his other candidates because he knows( or is relativly sure) that this will be his year to be the republican nominee, because in the end the people voting in the primaries will have little or no say in the nomination as the party leadership and major players in it really have the most say. All he is counting on is that people will still be angry at Obama ( and i think they will be still) and simply go vote for him.

Yeah, but Obama's been staking out the middle ground since summer of '09. He's got the left pissed off at him because of it. Romney's tack to the middle after being nominated, if he is, will have to be swift after the tack to the right that will be necessary in late January through May next year to shake off conservative candidates. In the meantime, America will see him swing right, before swinging left to the middle--all in 9 months--some will be left seasick. Who ever made the TV ad for Bush in '04, showing Kerry on the wind board, going one way and then the other--he's going to be in great demand at Obama campaign headquarters.
_harmony
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Re: Will This Election Be the Mormon Breakthrough?

Post by _harmony »

Jason Bourne wrote:Interesting opinion piece by Harold Bloom:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/13/opini ... ef=opinion

THIS fall, we behold omens that will darken a year hence in the final phase of President Obama’s campaign for a second term. His likely opponent, the Mormon Mitt Romney, will be a pioneer figure whatever the outcome, since no previous member of that very American church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has ever secured a major-party nomination. Even should Mr. Obama triumph, a crucial precedent will have been established.

Mr. Romney, earnest and staid, who is deep within the labyrinthine Mormon hierarchy, is directly descended from an early follower of the founding prophet Joseph Smith, whose highly original revelation was as much a departure from historical Christianity as Islam was and is. But then, so in fact are most manifestations of what is now called religion in the United States, including the Southern Baptist Convention, the Assemblies of God Pentecostalists and even our mainline Protestant denominations.

However, should Mr. Romney be elected president, Smith’s dream of a Mormon Kingdom of God in America would not be fulfilled, since the 21st-century Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has little resemblance to its 19th-century precursor. The current head of the Mormon Church, Thomas S. Monson, known to his followers as “prophet, seer and revelator,” is indistinguishable from the secular plutocratic oligarchs who exercise power in our supposed democracy.

The Salt Lake City empire of corporate greed has little enough in common with the visions of Joseph Smith. The oligarchs of Salt Lake City, who sponsor Mr. Romney, betray what ought to have been their own religious heritage. Though I read Christopher Hitchens with pleasure, his characterization of Joseph Smith as “a fraud and conjuror” is inadequate. A superb trickster and protean personality, Smith was a religious genius, uniquely able to craft a story capable of turning a self-invented faith into a people now as numerous as the Jews, in America and abroad. According to the church, about six million American citizens are Mormons, and there are more than eight million converts in Asia, Africa and elsewhere.

Persuasively redefining Christianity has been a pastime through the ages, yet the American difference is brazen. What I call the American Religion, and by that I mean nearly all religions in this country, socially manifests itself as the Emancipation of Selfishness. Our Great Emancipator of Selfishness, President Ronald Reagan, refreshingly evaded the rhetoric of religion, but has been appropriated anyway as the archangel of American spiritualized greed.


Much more for those interested.


He doesn't mince his words, does he?
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
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