Meeting with Bishop: Faith is a Choice

[_why me]

Faith is a choice. We can choose to believe or not to believe. Hitchens and Dawkins have chosen not to believe and so faith is meaningless for them. Others have chosen to believe in god and so they have faith that he exists. But of course, they don't have perfect knowlege. Many people here have chosen not to have faith when it comes to Mormonism. Some have no faith that there is a god. It is all about choice and this makes life interesting since we are all making choices on how to live and do life. But faith will always be a choice since we have no proof that god definitely exists.

Now if god would suddenly fall from the sky and say 'follow me' we would still have a choice but it would not be based on faith but on our own will to follow or not to follow.

The quarks are at this moment making choices when it comes to faith in Mormonism. And they seem to be choosing not to have it.

But faith is definitely a choice. It can be no other way.

[_quark]

If faith is a choice then God is nothing.

[_Jersey Girl]

If faith is a choice then God is nothing.

Don't think so.

[_Darth J]

Faith is a choice. We can choose to believe or not to believe. Hitchens and Dawkins have chosen not to believe and so faith is meaningless for them. Others have chosen to believe in god and so they have faith that he exists. But of course, they don't have perfect knowlege. Many people here have chosen not to have faith when it comes to Mormonism. Some have no faith that there is a god. It is all about choice and this makes life interesting since we are all making choices on how to live and do life. But faith will always be a choice since we have no proof that god definitely exists.

Now if god would suddenly fall from the sky and say 'follow me' we would still have a choice but it would not be based on faith but on our own will to follow or not to follow.

The quarks are at this moment making choices when it comes to faith in Mormonism. And they seem to be choosing not to have it.

But faith is definitely a choice. It can be no other way.

In summary, "faith" exists independently of the object of that faith.

So, Why Me.......as someone who chooses to have faith, do you feel that your faith that cleansing procedures by your friendly neighborhood Scientologists have effectively removed the thetans that cause all of your problems?

I certainly hope you feel that the answer is yes. Choose to have faith, Why Me!

[_EAllusion]

I like Why Me's post because it gives you the meaning of the word "faith" as it was intended in the conversation in the OP rather than the one Mikwut chose to offer. Of course, the problem with that sort of faith is it by definition doesn't give you any reason to have it in one thing over another. That makes it aimless and liable to produce bad beliefs. And, unfortunately, that makes it harmful. Sometimes only a little, but other times a lot.

[_quark]

If faith is a choice then God is nothing.

Don't think so.

I would rather hope that faith comes to us as a result of something independent of ourself. That would make it independent of our mind. It would make it something beyond ourselves, or maybe even make it a product of God's power. If there is a God, this God is going to interact in some way with people otherwise, it is not God.

If faith is made up of us just choosing to believe in God, then I don't see how God has any substance at all.

[_quark]

Mikwut,

I sort of get what you wrote. So faith is more like loyalty to someone else. It involves trust. That much, I understand.

So, why didn't LDS choose to have faith in its members? Why did it hide material from them? (i.e. peep stone, KEP, Clayton journals, 3 versions, etc) Does LDS choose not to have faith?

[_why me]

So, Why Me.......as someone who chooses to have faith, do you feel that your faith that cleansing procedures by your friendly neighborhood Scientologists have effectively removed the thetans that cause all of your problems?

I certainly hope you feel that the answer is yes. Choose to have faith, Why Me!

I have no faith in scientology but some do. And that is their choice to have faith. But faith comes and goes because it is based not on evidence but on belief. And beliefs can change.

But now I have a larger question: Did the witnesses to the Book of Mormon once they saw the plates continue to need faith or did they need something else to keep them going? I think that it is obvious that they many continued to have trust in Mormonism because of their experience but they lost faith in Joseph Smith. And this is why some floated around with Strang and other related Mormon offshoots.

[_why me]

Mikwut,

I sort of get what you wrote. So faith is more like loyalty to someone else. It involves trust. That much, I understand.

Faith has little to do with trust because there is no evidence that god exists to trust in it. Faith is about belief and not trust. We can trust evidence and this is what happened with the witnesses to the Book of Mormon as many testified of its truthfulness on their deathbed. They trusted that it was true based on the evidence of what they saw.

Doubting thomas needed evidence to believe because he lacked faith. With the evidence he developed trust that Christ was who he claimed he was.

[_keithb]

Faith has little to do with trust because there is no evidence that god exists to trust in it. Faith is about belief and not trust. We can trust evidence and this is what happened with the witnesses to the Book of Mormon as many testified of its truthfulness on their deathbed. They trusted that it was true based on the evidence of what they saw.

Doubting thomas needed evidence to believe because he lacked faith. With the evidence he developed trust that Christ was who he claimed he was.

I agree with the bolded part of the statement above.