Why do Mormon's fear knowledge...?

[_Buffalo]

Hmmm...BC has been a good foil of mine for a number of years. We have disagreed on many issues, but we are also good friends. I wouldn't say that BC fears knowledge that undermines the Church. I think that he simply labels it as unimportant, or, as he, himself stated, not pertinent to the gospel, itself.

This is quite different from fear.

Mostly what he does is pretend it doesn't exist, or that by merely saying, "it's refuted!" that it's so.

[_Themis]

Incorrect. I think I have proven well that I meet such head on; usually proving along the way that such remains of no value.

You just think you have.

Only if you define "open-mindedness" as agreement. According to the actual definition, I am probably more open-minded than most here. The difference is that I have enough experience to correctly judge "new" ideas, most of which are not actually new, but old chestnuts and proven failed philosophies.

Most of us, you included, came to this information with a conclusion already in hand. Some of us have been open minded enough to accept it. Unfortunately you are not among them. Maybe you just need more time. :)

[_subgenius]

Let me tell a little story first.

Several years ago there was a Stake President who relocated (and was therefore released) and went 'rogue'. I asked some family members about this person to try and understand what happened to him.
A couple of the responses surprised me but the one that stuck out was "he wanted to know too much".

As an aside, they also said in hushed tones that he had gotten into Buddhism *heads were shaking whilst it was said*. I asked what was so bad about Buddhism? *crickets*.

Anyway, I recalled this conversation and I wondered both why Mormon's were afraid of knowledge and how much knowledge is too much? Are we hearing from the leaders that famous Jack Nicholson line "The truth? You can't handle the truth!".

The Church makes an effort to take certain aspects and incidents of its history out of the demain where members commonly gain their knowledge about the Church.

GA's have spoken on the subject of knowledge:
"some things that are true are not useful"
They have identified academics and intellectuals as a threat.
Members have been disciplined and shunned for giving out too much knowledge.

Only recently the members in my area were exhorted "don't listen to the academics".

So what's the problem? I thought life, as explained within Mormonism, was meant to be a learning journey where we grow by increasing knowledge. How can we become God's if we don't acquire knowledge of everything?

So, having no actual proof that "Mormon's fear knowledge" you would propose the question anyway, aside from its obvious inflammatory overtones and lack of decorum in the celestial forum?

Then you seemingly equate a former stake president's alleged interest in Buddhism as some sort of not-fear for knowledge?

Then we read:
"Members have been disciplined and shunned for giving out too much knowledge."
don't you mean "too much information"? another example of a misleading post.

I have yet to see any sort of substance that supports the absurd claim which this thread bears as its title. There is no doctrine of the Mormon faith that "fears knowledge".
Your argument is feeble and tantamount with one claiming that Mormon's fear spiders because my little sister was startled by one during sacrament.

I wonder why this thread fears logic.

[_Hades]

So, having no actual proof that "Mormon's fear knowledge" you would propose the question anyway, aside from its obvious inflammatory overtones and lack of decorum in the celestial forum?

Then you seemingly equate a former stake president's alleged interest in Buddhism as some sort of not-fear for knowledge?

Then we read:
"Members have been disciplined and shunned for giving out too much knowledge."
don't you mean "too much information"? another example of a misleading post.

I have yet to see any sort of substance that supports the absurd claim which this thread bears as its title. There is no doctrine of the Mormon faith that "fears knowledge".
Your argument is feeble and tantamount with one claiming that Mormon's fear spiders because my little sister was startled by one during sacrament.

I wonder why this thread fears logic.

What about the Mormon doctrine of "put it on a shelf"? Why, because it's scary? Will it lead to doubt? Will I lose my testimony if I don't put it on a shelf?

[_Drifting]

Let me tell a little story first.

Several years ago there was a Stake President who relocated (and was therefore released) and went 'rogue'. I asked some family members about this person to try and understand what happened to him.
A couple of the responses surprised me but the one that stuck out was "he wanted to know too much".

As an aside, they also said in hushed tones that he had gotten into Buddhism *heads were shaking whilst it was said*. I asked what was so bad about Buddhism? *crickets*.

Anyway, I recalled this conversation and I wondered both why Mormon's were afraid of knowledge and how much knowledge is too much? Are we hearing from the leaders that famous Jack Nicholson line "The truth? You can't handle the truth!".

The Church makes an effort to take certain aspects and incidents of its history out of the demain where members commonly gain their knowledge about the Church.

GA's have spoken on the subject of knowledge:
"some things that are true are not useful"
They have identified academics and intellectuals as a threat.
Members have been disciplined and shunned for giving out too much knowledge.

Only recently the members in my area were exhorted "don't listen to the academics".

So what's the problem? I thought life, as explained within Mormonism, was meant to be a learning journey where we grow by increasing knowledge. How can we become God's if we don't acquire knowledge of everything?

So, having no actual proof that "Mormon's fear knowledge" you would propose the question anyway, aside from its obvious inflammatory overtones and lack of decorum in the celestial forum?

Then you seemingly equate a former stake president's alleged interest in Buddhism as some sort of not-fear for knowledge?

Then we read:
"Members have been disciplined and shunned for giving out too much knowledge."
don't you mean "too much information"? another example of a misleading post.

I have yet to see any sort of substance that supports the absurd claim which this thread bears as its title. There is no doctrine of the Mormon faith that "fears knowledge".
Your argument is feeble and tantamount with one claiming that Mormon's fear spiders because my little sister was startled by one during sacrament.

I wonder why this thread fears logic.

subgenius,
Where did I state that a fear of knowledge was a doctrine of the faith?

I quoted a general authority exhibiting the fear that I suggest exists. This same General Authority is famous for explicitly highlighting intellectuals as an enemy of the Church - he is one Mormon clearly frightened of knowledge, frightened the members will gain it!

There are well documented examples where members have been disciplined for publishing, truthful, factual knowledge.

Moderators: Do you feel my post is "obviously inflammatory" and lacking the necessary "decorum" for a Celestial thread? Feel free to reply publicly to this question.

subgenius,
Is knowledge materially different to information?

All you have done is verbally attack me.
You could have shown substance of where the Church embraces a thirst for knowledge and encourages members to find things out for themselves...oh...perhaps you couldn't...


p.s. I'm sorry to hear about your sisters arachnophobia.

[_Buffalo]

So, having no actual proof that "Mormon's fear knowledge" you would propose the question anyway, aside from its obvious inflammatory overtones and lack of decorum in the celestial forum?

Then you seemingly equate a former stake president's alleged interest in Buddhism as some sort of not-fear for knowledge?

Then we read:
"Members have been disciplined and shunned for giving out too much knowledge."
don't you mean "too much information"? another example of a misleading post.

I have yet to see any sort of substance that supports the absurd claim which this thread bears as its title. There is no doctrine of the Mormon faith that "fears knowledge".
Your argument is feeble and tantamount with one claiming that Mormon's fear spiders because my little sister was startled by one during sacrament.

I wonder why this thread fears logic.

What about the Mormon doctrine of "put it on a shelf"? Why, because it's scary? Will it lead to doubt? Will I lose my testimony if I don't put it on a shelf?

Exactly. If you weren't afraid of the knowledge, you wouldn't need to keep it on the shelf. A church that isn't afraid of knowledge would tell its members, "Go ahead, read both sides of the story. But we're confident that the evidence is on our side."

[_subgenius]

Top level of Mormonism is to become A God.

Top level of Buddhism is one step above Mormonism; To loose the desire to become a God. (Essentially).

In that scenario with the Stake Pres.;, it would be something better left unsaid.

and on the subject : fear of knowledge
"to loose the desire to become a God"? really?...where exactly is that Buddhist scripture or teaching?
is it found within...
* denominational conflicts found throughout Buddhism?
* the clear plagiarism from Hindu teachings?
* that Buddha was non-existent? (date of Buddha's nirvana in Sri Lanka 483 BC, in Burma 544 BC, Tibet 835 BC, China 11th century BC, and India 1800 BC, maybe.)
* The fact that Buddhism was an oral tradition until the membership decline caused by Christianity's rise caused these traditions to be written and revised in order to "one up" the scriptures.
* That western Buddhism relies only on a narrow view of a narrow section of the Pali canon.
* Their involvement in Mongol and Gelug-pa war efforts
* The zen establishment's fierce regime of power after the Meiji Restoration
* Their insistence that there is a "false" reality (why is that)
* The inequality of women in the Buddhist hierarchy, ie. quoth the Buddha- "If women go forth under the rule of the Dharma, this Dharma will not be long-enduring."
* sex scandal of Lama Choedak Rinpoche
* sex scandal of Sangharakshita
* the logic of social ills being the result of a past life's sins gone unremembered
* monasteries demanding financial support from the community in the name of karma
* etc etc etc

[_subgenius]

subgenius,
Where did I state that a fear of knowledge was a doctrine of the faith?

"Why do Mormon's fear knowledge...?"
What else do you propose makes one a "Mormon"? Is there something other than the doctrines of faith that makes one a Mormon? So, if you meet a member of the Baptist church and claims the Book of Mormon to be fiction would they be termed a "Mormon"?
Maybe i am confused about what you consider qualifies as a "Mormon"...me i consider it to be fundamentally based upon a shared doctrine, what about you?

I quoted a general authority exhibiting the fear that I suggest exists. This same General Authority is famous for explicitly highlighting intellectuals as an enemy of the Church - he is one Mormon clearly frightened of knowledge, frightened the members will gain it!

not true. quote the source, specifically where "members will gain it!".

There are well documented examples where members have been disciplined for publishing, truthful, factual knowledge.

knowledge is not necessarily information nor is information knowledge. A deliberate mis-characterization by your post.

subgenius,
Is knowledge materially different to information?

considerably so, especially in discussions of philosophy and/or religion.

All you have done is verbally attack me.

not true. i have attacked your post without any mention of you, your capacities, or your character.

You could have shown substance of where the Church embraces a thirst for knowledge and encourages members to find things out for themselves...oh...perhaps you couldn't...

a counter argument only has merit when an argument has been proposed...of which that has no happened. Your post is making a claim that it must first support or justify as being more than just opinion.
http://LDS.org/search?lang=eng&query=knowledge
none of these above linked results seem to discourage members from seeking knowledge in all things.
Or even this specific one - http://LDS.org/manual/duties-and-blessi ... e?lang=eng
or
D&C 88:78-79
78 Teach ye diligently and my agrace shall attend you, that you may be binstructed more perfectly in theory, in principle, in doctrine, in the law of the gospel, in all things that pertain unto the kingdom of God, that are expedient for you to understand;

79 Of things both in aheaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must bshortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the cnations, and the judgments which are on the land; and a dknowledge also of countries and of kingdoms—

Maybe you have some citations that would outweigh the numerous mentions from the church?

p.s. I'm sorry to hear about your sisters arachnophobia.

thanks, but she does not suffer from arachnophobia, just an issue with that one particular spider's behavior, she realizes that not all spiders are that way.

[_Fence Sitter]

I don't think members fear all knowledge, I just think they have been encouraged by the Church to avoid looking into areas that might challenge their faith.

[_Themis]

I don't think members fear all knowledge, I just think they have been encouraged by the Church to avoid looking into areas that might challenge their faith.

Bingo