maklelan wrote:"Oh, yeah? Well, I can take your methodology and insist it proves Joseph Smith was gay, and you can't do anything about it."
We're not bound by your legalistic, fundamentalist reading of things, Maklelan. I have not limited it to Joseph Smith self-identifying as "gay" to account for his trysts with Brigham Young.
Darth J wrote:If this thread "betrays a rather juvenile approach to take an opportunity for actual critique." then I wonder how it was that you were able to recognize "your methodology" at work.
My methodology? I was paraphrasing your OP. As far as I know, you weren't addressing me.
Then who is the "your" referenced in "your methodology"?
"28 During the space of time which intervened between the time I had the vision and the year eighteen hundred and twenty-three—having been forbidden to join any of the religious sects of the day, and being of very tender years, and persecuted by those who ought to have been my afriends and to have treated me kindly, and if they supposed me to be deluded to have endeavored in a proper and affectionate manner to have reclaimed me—I was left to all kinds of temptations; and, mingling with all kinds of society, I frequently fell into many foolish cerrors, and displayed the weakness of youth, and the foibles of human nature; which, I am sorry to say, led me into divers temptations, offensive in the sight of God."
It's quite possible that Joseph here is referring to his brief stint as a male prostitute, trading his body for the money would need in order to learn the craft of making the hallucinogen-laced wine that would instill his congregations later with an unusual degree of spiritual manifestations. There is certainly no evidence to the contrary.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Good news. I just prayed about it and received confirmation that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young really were gay lovers. I think that answers it for any skeptics out there.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
I am given to understand that initially Mormon undergarments for the Leaders only were made from animal skin and were of Austrian styling.
I do not believe there is too much by way of contradictory evidence.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Charity wrote: We start with the knowledge that [Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were lovers.] Exactly how [their relationship originated] does not matter.
We find it interesting to consider those questions, but it doesn't matter. And we have fun with various theories that are proposed, with various scholarly studies that give information and suggestions about evidences.
Since we have sure knowledge via the Spirit, if someone produces some little bit that goes against what we know, we can let it roll of our backs like water off a duck. It doesn't phase us. We can be patient. Whatever appears to be against [Joseph and Brigham's liaisons] is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.
DarkHelmet wrote:Good news. I just prayed about it and received confirmation that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young really were gay lovers. I think that answers it for any skeptics out there.
I like it when a thread turns into a Fast and Testimony Meeting. Where's my bread and water first, though?
maklelan wrote: No, I'm not concerned with this little exercise, I'm just amused by the way sophomoric rhetoric has crowded out actual discourse here.
So wait, are you saying that its not possible that Joe and Brigham were gay lovers? How did you arrive at this conclusion? Based on the evidence provided, I would say the likelihood of a homosexual relationship between the two is very high as there seem to be a number of direct "hits".
"your reasoning that children should be experimented upon to justify a political agenda..is tantamount to the Nazi justification for experimenting on human beings."-SUBgenius on gay parents "I've stated over and over again on this forum and fully accept that I'm a bigot..." - ldsfaqs
And, I'm pretty sure that Joseph Smith had sex with two women at the same time. I've felt the Spirit testify to me that this is so. Joseph loved women but also like to experiment with men to satisfy all of his passions.
Now, Brigham Young could pile women up on his bed and treat them like holy-holes -- servants of the master prophet. Brigham Young was a prophet-pimp and totally into getting himself pleasure as often as he could. The Church provided for him quite well. He lived like a king.
How about Tommy-fat-Monson-boy? How many women can he roll in one night? Surely Tommy has desires too. Are there any women in this forum that will sacrifice themselves to him?