Blacks weren't allowed to pray in church

[_Blixa]

Thank you! This shall certainly put an end to the vain blusterings of those who claimed you were Obiwan in disguise!

He is also Obiwan.

Sorry, Darth. Perhaps my change in avatar has affected my sarcasm function. I was trying to make a funny. Of course, I admit, it's quite a task to crack wise about the man who gave us the term "gender racism."

[_lovedoggies]

I'm not sure who anyone is as yet, but am having fun reading the posts. (Do I need to notate that I was making a joke on last post?)

[_Blixa]

(Do I need to notate that I was making a joke on last post?)

Not for me, sweetie!

[_moksha]

So if JMJ has to put out for Walker Lewis, describe what about her sealing as a servant is less than that of the non-servant sealed, Celestial Sister-Wives?

Not sure I understand the question.

[_ludwigm]

Some positive....

“Black Pete” was baptizing as early as 1830 or 1831.

OK, I've identified the man:

Sinterklaas [the Santa of Netherlands] is assisted by many mischievous helpers with black faces and colourful Moorish dresses. These helpers are called 'Zwarte Pieten' (Black Petes). During the Middle-ages Zwarte Piet was a name for evil. Although the character of Black Pete later came to acquire racial connotations, his origins were in the evil figure. Good and bad play an important role in the feast: good is rewarded, bad and evil is punished. Hence the duplication of the one Saint in a saint and a (frolicking) devil.

by the way

Old maid is a Victorian card game for two to eight players probably deriving from an ancient gambling game in which the loser pays for the drinks. It is known in Germany as Schwarzer Peter, in Sweden as Svarte Petter and in Finland as Musta Pekka (all meaning "black Peter") and in France as le pouilleux ("the lousy/louse-ridden one") or vieux garçon ("old boy"). The game spawns an element of bluffing, commonly used in poker.
A variant is called jackass, played with jacks instead of queens as the odd amount of cards. It is known in Dutch as zwartepieten ("playing Black Pete") or pijkezotjagen ("Chasing the jack of spades"), in Polish as Piotruś ("Peter"), in Icelandic as Svarti Pétur ("black Peter") and in Swedish as Svarte Petter ("Black Peter").

... and "Fekete Péter" in Hungarian.

For Shades only:

Another variant, baba-nuki (ババ抜き), is played in Japan

And please don't forget: the loser pays for the drinks.

[_sock puppet]

So if JMJ has to put out for Walker Lewis, describe what about her sealing as a servant is less than that of the non-servant sealed, Celestial Sister-Wives?

Not sure I understand the question.

If JMJ's sealing to Walker Lewis was not as a 'wife', just as a 'servant', but the relationship nevertheless allows for connubial bliss, what differentiates a sealed servant from a sealed wife?

[_just me]

JMJ was sealed to Joseph Smith as a servant! I am not sure if she was ever granted the right of being sealed to a man as a spouse during her life.

Her temple work was done in 1979.

Since the Familysearch system doesn't have a way to seal people linked as a "servant" they have her as his daughter.

[_lovedoggies]

What is JMJs full name? And what the heck? I would like to have a massage therapist sealed to me, but then again, it makes absolutely no sense. We won't be in need of clothes in theory as everything will be "perfect", so no need of servants...guess I won't be needing a massage...but what type of mindset would want to have a person sealed as a "servant?" Talk about equal opportunity insult to injury.

[_Drifting]

Ldsfaqs,

From your posts is this a correct summary of what you believe on these things?

1. The reason the 15 Apostles are 14 white American men and 1 white German man is because they are the ones God feels are the most righteous people on the earth today?

No, not really. They are the ones most prepared spiritually and intellectually.
Jesus when he called his Apostles he wasn't trying to be politically correct.
If there were a 100,000 blacks in the Church living in Utah, Idaho, etc. then there would be a lot of blacks in the Apostleship. The Lord calls those who are right for the job, not to be pleasing to the eye rainbow.

I had Spencer W. Kimball's brother has my home teacher once as a child, and that man was just as righteous and wise as Kimball was, yet, he was a simple man in a small town. As time goes on, there will be those as we have higher numbers of races in the Church who will be prepared, similar to how Dieter F. Uchtdorf was.... He by the way is likely my favorite Apostle right now. A wonderful good man, and wise man.

2. The reason for the severe problems in your marriage (for what its worth, I am sorry those things happened to you) is because you didn't follow Gods advice to Mormons to only marry people from the same race generally?

No, that's not the actual "reasons", but it certainly was a contributing factor.
My wife had a lot of judgments which stemmed from her cultural expectations of a spouse.
Just to give you an example of an event prior to our marriage.
We were in school at BYUH..... There was an activity at one of the Professor's house. The living room was packed full of students. We were playing a game in which someone said something, and in order to win you had to be the first to jump and and also act out the thing said the best, and it was voted on. Well, her and I sat there, we were watching others jumping up and acting crazy, we both were laughing and enjoying ourselves, finally there came something said that I could do, and I was sure I could win. They said "karate man" or something, so I jumped up, knowing I was the first and was the best, but for some reason most thought this other guy was first, so he won. But anyway, okay, no biggy, however the the later on wife spazzed out, she looked at me, and treated me terrible, she believed I had "embarrased" her, when all I had done is exactly what others had been doing. Further, she and others had done fun crazy things many times before, yet for some reason my simply playing the game, a game she was enjoying watching, I became someone not worth it, somehow something terrible.... She was really terrible the way she treated me.

Anyway, that was an example of how she would allow some of her cultural expectations to override her good Mormon common sense, kindness, fun and charity when it came to her spouse and our relationship. That was my first experience with her very terrible and unreasonable judgmentalism. She wasn't that way to anyone else, but only me.

Anyway, the point is with the Church, differences in religion, differences in culture, in race, etc. can all play a role in destroying a marriage. Thus, the Church encourages it's members to be careful. It has nothing to do with racism, but in protecting family's and covenants.

Thank you for sharing this - I appreciate your candidness. What you describe is bullying, or so it would seem to me. I am sorry you went through that experience.


Putting your personal circumstance to one side, do Mormon same race marriages have a better success ratio than say non Mormon mixed race marriages? I do not know any facts or stats but intuitively I would say that the mixing of race is not a distinguishing characteristic of higher divorce rates. Anyone know any stats on this?

[_Buffalo]

From the ME site:

"The Opening prayer in Sacrament meeting and both prayers in Priesthood meeting used to require a priesthood holder. Other prayers did not."