Happy Valley Photo Essay

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_Darth J
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _Darth J »

Simon Belmont wrote:Anyway, back on topic:

Since Scratch is unable to provide just one example of "nuclear-grade meltdown" or "vicious gang attack" in the comments section of the Happy Valley Photo Essay, perhaps someone else would like to help him out?

Or, he could do the honorable thing and retract the statements.

Image


You know, every time Simon Belmont gets on a thread, it's suspense. You're like, "How could he possibly make even more of a fool of himself?"

Well, in this instance, he has gone on and on trying to take issue with a metaphor he didn't understand. A person who knew that a nuclear meltdown and a nuclear explosion are very different things would not have posted that picture of a nuclear warhead detonating.

The reason why a meltdown is an apt metaphor is because three Maxwell Institute apologists tried to deflect from something that made Mormons look quaint, folksy, and maybe a little bit weird. In so doing, they made Mormons look like smug, hypersensitive assholes with chips on their shoulders (which is an accurate assessment, in the case of those three). They did this on Time's website, for the whole world to see, and were stunned that they did not get the usual fawning and praise for their petty vindictiveness by their mouth-breathing fanbois from the Bloggernacle (like Simon Belmont). This very public obliviousness to how they come across to the rest of the world is what made it a meltdown on a nuclear scale. Their rush to defend the Church from nothing makes Mormons look even worse than what they fantasized they were responding to.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

I gotta tell ya. The photo essay kinda sucked. It just looks like a dude took out his disposable camera and snapped a bunch of shots.

Also, that woman looks seriously depressed.
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _Kishkumen »

What I find amusing about the whole concept of the photo essay is the fact that it exists. I mean, you would think that there were something particularly interesting about American Mormons that one could catch on film without getting into huge trouble. It seems to me the guy practically had to juice up the captions in order to make it seem like the whole exercise had not been a complete waste of time.

"Oh look, there are those Mormons, eating high calorie treats!" "Woooooo!" "Look at the Mormons, wearing street clothes that cover most of their bodies and can be purchased at any local JCPenny!" "Ahhhhhhhh!"

I mean, it would be one thing if Mormons really did live up to the erroneous folklore of looking like the Amish (Brigham Young), driving carriages, and having many, many wives, but most Mormons I know are indistinguishable from a band of Nazarines or any other strict, conservative, and generally dull group of American Christians (well, to be fair, a lot of Mormons are less up tight and cooler). The captions were just a lame attempt of making the mediocre pictures interesting.

If the guy had photographed the endowment or people standing around in their garments, it would have justified the pseudo-anthropological voyeurism of the captions. But then it would have also been just plain offensive.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_sock puppet
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _sock puppet »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:I gotta tell ya. The photo essay kinda sucked. It just looks like a dude took out his disposable camera and snapped a bunch of shots.
Yep. That's kinda of the point. Everyday life, just like, say, in Dayton Ohio, except the occasional Mormon twist in there. That's what I thought the point of Time's publishing it was. You have two Mormons running for the presidency of the U.S. right now. Show how normal in many ways Mormons are, but yet a 'peculiar people' at the same time. Ward and June Cleaver they are not (despite DCP's protestations), but Warren Jeffs is not representative of 21st Century Mormons either.

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Also, that woman looks seriously depressed.
From my years in Happy Valley, I remember a fair number of women having looked depressed like she does.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _Kishkumen »

OK, many of the photographs are pretty. A few of them are lame. And the comments are amazing. I am, of course, gratified by those that stick up for Mr. Shumway. Also, I don't see that the captions are all that bad. They don't strike me as particularly inaccurate. At my house we did not watch TV until Wild Kingdom and Disney came on in the evening.

As one guy comments, very accurately I might add, area and local leaders often have come out with these micromanaging pronouncements about what people should be doing. For example, early in the 2000s, my in-laws' stake had a directive about women wearing pantyhose. They were told that they needed to wear pantyhose to church meetings. One of my BYU profs, who was serving as bishop, was told by his leaders that he must ask marrieds whether they engaged in oral sex. That was in the nineties!

So, how strange are these captions after all? They are actually quite mild compared to what they might have been.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

I wonder if he's related to Landon Shumway, who ran the Exmo-Social website...

- VRDRC
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_sock puppet
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _sock puppet »

Kishkumen wrote:OK, many of the photographs are pretty. A few of them are lame. And the comments are amazing. I am, of course, gratified by those that stick up for Mr. Shumway. Also, I don't see that the captions are all that bad. They don't strike me as particularly inaccurate. At my house we did not watch TV until Wild Kingdom and Disney came on in the evening.

As one guy comments, very accurately I might add, area and local leaders often have come out with these micromanaging pronouncements about what people should be doing. For example, early in the 2000s, my in-laws' stake had a directive about women wearing pantyhose. They were told that they needed to wear pantyhose to church meetings. One of my BYU profs, who was serving as bishop, was told by his leaders that he must ask marrieds whether they engaged in oral sex. That was in the nineties!

So, how strange are these captions after all? They are actually quite mild compared to what they might have been.

What I find amusing is when mopologists try to ditch an individual's Mormon experience by chalking up certain aspects to that individual's "rogue" local LDS leaders. The weekly, and in some cases day-to-day, experience of Mormonism depends on what one's local LDS leaders do and say. The COB makes it possible, even if it does not endorse explicitly every thing that every SP and bishop and Relief Society president does and says. The COB builds the meeting houses, through the down-chain selects those in a stake or ward to be its leaders (through God's inspiration, right?), provides 'training', provides correlated lesson materials (that, as Darth J's posts repeatedly demonstrate, put mopologists at odds with the COB), and guidelines (CHI) for how the local leaders are to handle things.

In sum, the Church is not just the COB. It is not just NAMIRS--sorry to deflate your ego, DCP, on this fine Sunday morning. It is the collection of it all, right down to the Sunday School teacher for the 9 year olds in Seattle that abused one of those young girls, and how the upchain reacted to it. It is how it litigates in the courts (including paying out rather than disclosing its secret finances). It includes how the Church handles its PR, such as apostle Oaks first denying that the FP/12 was dealing with Hoffman, causing Oaks to eat crow the next day admitting they had been. Part and parcel of Mormonism is its real estate developments, both in the lavish, extravagant spending on City Creek Mall in downtown SLC and in causing poor people to be evicted from the low-end motel homes in blighted Ogden in the middle of winter, just a week or two before Christmas because the area surrounding the Ogden Temple needs sprucing up.

Mopologetics is the practice of denuding that which once made Mormonism a rich religious and social culture, a peculiar people. It is also the act of paring down to the unfalsifiable--something mainstream Christianity had honed for centuries, resulting in the unfalsifiable religious product that the LDS Church now hankers for. It is an intellectually dishonest exercise that when all is said and done, leaves Mormonism as nothing but an allegiance to the COB. The pace at which this has been achieved in the last 27 years is remarkable.

But keep in mind DCP and your mopologetic minions, if there was anything once worth having faith in (believing in the absence of evidence), you are chopping it down like the fanciful story of George Washington chopping down the cherry tree. Only you all are lying to yourselves about what you're accomplishing there at NAMIRS.
_Simon Belmont

Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _Simon Belmont »

Darth J wrote:You know, every time Simon Belmont gets on a thread, it's suspense. You're like, "How could he possibly make even more of a fool of himself?"

Well, in this instance, he has gone on and on trying to take issue with a metaphor he didn't understand. A person who knew that a nuclear meltdown and a nuclear explosion are very different things would not have posted that picture of a nuclear warhead detonating.

The reason why a meltdown is an apt metaphor is because three Maxwell Institute apologists tried to deflect from something that made Mormons look quaint, folksy, and maybe a little bit weird. In so doing, they made Mormons look like smug, hypersensitive assholes with chips on their shoulders (which is an accurate assessment, in the case of those three). They did this on Time's website, for the whole world to see, and were stunned that they did not get the usual fawning and praise for their petty vindictiveness by their mouth-breathing fanbois from the Bloggernacle (like Simon Belmont). This very public obliviousness to how they come across to the rest of the world is what made it a meltdown on a nuclear scale. Their rush to defend the Church from nothing makes Mormons look even worse than what they fantasized they were responding to.


Since Scratch and his other henchmen cannot provide a quote from DCP in the comments section of the Happy Valley Photo essay which constitutes a "nuclear-grade meltdown" or a "vicious gang attack" in whole or in part, perhaps you can?

Oh, and since you took issue with my nuclear related photo, here is a picture of Chernobyl, a nuclear-grade meltdown:

Image

Also, here is a short video on the nuclear meltdown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvAJ_u3Q0Hw (graphic images may not be suitable for younger viewers, or Darth J.)

So, where are the DCP comments section of the Happy Valley Photo essay which constitutes a "nuclear-grade meltdown"?

Where are they, Darth J?
Where are they, Sock Puppet?
And, most of all, Where are they, Scratch?

Quote just one... just one.
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Let's engage in a little bit of a thought experiment here. Suppose I post quotes--the same quotes that SP posted, say. What then? We already know what you're going to do, Simon: you're going to say, "That's just sarcasm. That's not a 'nuclear grade meltdown'! Retract it or you're a liar!" And suppose I actually followed through on your silly demands and did that, too. What then? How do you benefit in any way by getting to call me a liar? Would that suddenly render moot all of the problems with LDS apologetics and/or the Church itself? Heck, Simon: suppose I labeled myself a "liar" and apologized. What would you get out of that? Personal satisfaction? Would you feel vindicated? Would that "fix" whatever it is that has gone wrong with you?

You're just not a serious person on any level, my friend. Remember that thread from several weeks ago, where you were asking similar questions--where you claimed to "sincerely" want to know about why I have issues with the Mopologists? And I told you I would list things if you'd name both the top ten nasty things that Mopologists have done, along with 5 that Dan Peterson himself have done, and you chickened out? That pretty much tells me everything that I need to know about you.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Simon Belmont

Re: Happy Valley Photo Essay

Post by _Simon Belmont »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Let's engage in a little bit of a thought experiment here. Suppose I post quotes--the same quotes that SP posted, say. What then? We already know what you're going to do, Simon: you're going to say, "That's just sarcasm. That's not a 'nuclear grade meltdown'! Retract it or you're a liar!" And suppose I actually followed through on your silly demands and did that, too. What then? How do you benefit in any way by getting to call me a liar? Would that suddenly render moot all of the problems with LDS apologetics and/or the Church itself? Heck, Simon: suppose I labeled myself a "liar" and apologized. What would you get out of that? Personal satisfaction? Would you feel vindicated? Would that "fix" whatever it is that has gone wrong with you?


I just want you and others to see how pointless the five+ year obsession with DCP has been. When readers actually check your exaggerated comments about what DCP has supposedly done, they see that they are almost always blown way out of proportion (i.e. nuclear-grade meltdown/meltdown of epic proportions, etc.). I mean, you can't even pinpoint exactly why you are so enthralled/angry with the guy. I asked you sincerely, and when it was clear that you just wanted to play games instead of answer, I finally gave up.

That's what you do, just play games until someone gives up.

You're just not a serious person on any level, my friend. Remember that thread from several weeks ago, where you were asking similar questions--where you claimed to "sincerely" want to know about why I have issues with the Mopologists? And I told you I would list things if you'd name both the top ten nasty things that Mopologists have done, along with 5 that Dan Peterson himself have done, and you chickened out? That pretty much tells me everything that I need to know about you.


As I said above, I did not chicken out, I compromised. You wanted to play games instead. I even asked for just the top 2 things you think DCP had done, and you couldn't come up with any.

So, yes, when you say things about another person like "nuclear-grade meltdown" I take issue with it, because it simply isn't true.

With all of that being said, I am still very interested in what you think DCP has done to merit a five year obsession/focus/crusade whatever you want to call it.
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