The God Delusion

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_Jason Bourne
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Re: The God Delusion

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Jersey Girl wrote:Dear Mr. Bourne,

So far as I am concerned, you can read whatever the hell you want to read. But do one thing, if you will. Read the backgrounds/bio's of the authors. I say this because I think that in order to understand where they are coming from...you need to know where they come from in terms life course, experiences and influences.

In other words, treat the material just as you have in your study of Christianity.

Ever your friend,
Jersey
:-)



Excellent advice!
_Jersey Girl
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Re: The God Delusion

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Jason Bourne wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:Dear Mr. Bourne,

So far as I am concerned, you can read whatever the hell you want to read. But do one thing, if you will. Read the backgrounds/bio's of the authors. I say this because I think that in order to understand where they are coming from...you need to know where they come from in terms life course, experiences and influences.

In other words, treat the material just as you have in your study of Christianity.

Ever your friend,
Jersey
:-)



Excellent advice!


Hey, I ain't done yet!!!

And don't let anyone else tell you what to think. After all the years I've been on these boards (12 years too long) I have come to the conclusion that many or most of us (the collective us, not me of course, because I am too smart for it :-) simply regurgitate the thoughts of others. For as many believers that you see repeating dogma, there are any number of atheists also repeating a kind of atheistic dogma.

Don't fall for it.

Do your own study, your own research, make your own comparisions, engage in your own reflective process and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

Choose your path and follow it. Life is too short.

How well we know.

:-)
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_DrW
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Re: The God Delusion

Post by _DrW »

Jason Bourne wrote:
DrW wrote:Jason,

Just checked in quickly and have not read the entire thread, but I do have one suggestion if you have decided to read work on religion and God by non-believing authors.

That suggestion is to start with Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris. This book is short, sweet, and gets the job done quite nicely.

It was written specifically in response to American Evangelicals who bombard Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, Dennett, and others with questions and hate mail each time one of them publishes a new book.

IMHO, this book should be required reading for graduation from high school.


Dr W I picked up Harris's book one day at Barnes & Nobles when I was browsing and read it for about 20 minutes. I did not buy it. Because I respect you I will get that one too and read it along with Dawkins book.

Jason,

What a very kind thing to say. Thank you.

Harris' other book, The End of Faith, is also worth reading.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Ceeboo
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Re: The God Delusion

Post by _Ceeboo »

Jersey Girl wrote:
And don't let anyone else tell you what to think. After all the years I've been on these boards (12 years too long) I have come to the conclusion that many or most of us (the collective us, not me of course, because I am too smart for it :-) simply regurgitate the thoughts of others. For as many believers that you see repeating dogma, there are any number of atheists also repeating a kind of atheistic dogma.

:-)



You go Jersey Girl. You go girl! :)
:)

:)

:)
v
v
v
v
v
v

Peace and Merry Christmas,
Ceeboo
_Jersey Girl
_Emeritus
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Re: The God Delusion

Post by _Jersey Girl »

I still ain't done!!! (Is she ever going to get off the thread???)

Jason,

I'm tellling you this just in case you aren't already aware of it. Your thinking is following a predictable pattern with regards to the stages of human development in terms of cognition, psychology, moral reasoning and all of that.

So, while you are studying, don't neglect to study yourself. :-)

Ever your friend*,
Jersey Girl

*Unless you jump into atheism at which point I will dump ya like a hot potato.*

*j/k

:-D
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_MrStakhanovite
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Re: The God Delusion

Post by _MrStakhanovite »

Ceeboo wrote:Would you be so kind as to drill down on this thought a little more?


The reason why Dawkins’ book is so popular is that a lot of atheists identify a lot with what the book says. I’ve read and heard a lot of testimonies from atheists about how this book gave them a voice they didn’t have and/or inspired them to make their atheism known to others.

Reactions to popular atheism also have this book in mind, by my count, there are 5 responses alone to Dawkins’ book that is a play on the title “The God Delusion” in some way or another.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: The God Delusion

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Short wiki about what I'm referring to, Jason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development

Note the consideration of the 7th possible stage.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Buffalo
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Re: The God Delusion

Post by _Buffalo »

MrStakhanovite wrote:
Some Schmo wrote:Do people think they are somehow being clever when they misspell "new" in the ignorant term "new atheism?" Is this what passes for humor or intellectualism? Is it supposed to be disparaging?


This explains the background.


I don't believe in gnus.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Ceeboo
_Emeritus
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Re: The God Delusion

Post by _Ceeboo »

MrStakhanovite wrote:
Ceeboo wrote:Would you be so kind as to drill down on this thought a little more?


The reason why Dawkins’ book is so popular is that a lot of atheists identify a lot with what the book says. I’ve read and heard a lot of testimonies from atheists about how this book gave them a voice they didn’t have and/or inspired them to make their atheism known to others.

Reactions to popular atheism also have this book in mind, by my count, there are 5 responses alone to Dawkins’ book that is a play on the title “The God Delusion” in some way or another.



Thanks, Stak (I appreciate it and you)

And MERRY CHRISTMAS! :)

Peace,
Ceeboo
_DrW
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Re: The God Delusion

Post by _DrW »

Jersey Girl wrote:
DrW wrote:Jason,

Just checked in quickly and have not read the entire thread, but I do have one suggestion if you have decided to read work on religion and God by non-believing authors.

That suggestion is to start with Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris. This book is short, sweet, and gets the job done quite nicely.

It was written specifically in response to American Evangelicals who bombard Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, Dennett, and others with questions and hate mail each time one of them publishes a new book.

IMHO, this book should be required reading for graduation from high school.


DrW,

I am not at all familiar with the book that you recommended. I did a quick wiki on it and here is an excerpt:

We read the Golden Rule and judge it to be a brilliant distillation of many of our ethical impulses. And then we come across another of God’s teachings on morality: if a man discovers on his wedding night that his bride is not a virgin, he must stone her to death on her father’s doorstep (Deuteronomy 22:13-21).[3]


Tell me, does Harris acknowledge at all the New Testament and what does he have to say about it as it relates to the Old Testament?

Jersey Girl,

It is fair to say, I think, that both Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins look at religion, and especially American Evangelical Christianity, through a "long lens". That is, from their viewpoint, the scriptures (Old Testament and New Testament) are sort of collapsed together as they form the foundation for Christianity.

While Evangelical Christians might be a little more willing to look at the Old Testament as metaphorical as compared to the New Testament, from the non-believer's perspective neither scripture is much more than a compilation of Bronze Age tradition, myth and legend.

When Harris and Dawkins talk about the authors of the Bible, they do not distinguish much between the Bronze Age beliefs or herdsmen and farmers of the Old Testament and those of the more advanced societies of the New Testament. Both scriptures are full of anthropomorphized deities, superstition, vengeance and magic.

Since both are foundational documents for Christianity, then Christians can rightly be held to account for their professed beliefs, as set forth in both.

I personally think that Letter to a Christian Nation focuses in on this issue very effectively.

It really asks Christians some tough questions:

"Do you really believe all of this stuff?"

"Do you understand the extent to which religion, and the contemporary practice of religion, is based upon demonstrable lies?"

He goes into this latter issue in some detail, and for good reason.

The follow-on questions are no easier:

"If you do not believe all of it, then where do you draw the line and on what basis do you make that decision?"

"Are you really going to simply pick and choose?

"For example, are you really going to disregard the New Testament apocrypha as scripture when they have been arbitrarily distinguished from the canonized books of the New Testament based on the decisions of a group of men with a clear political agenda?"

Once someone figures out that the whole set of work is nothing more than an internally inconsistent and largely arbitrary set of myths and legends based on superstition, misunderstanding and tradition, and that they no different from the hundreds or thousands of other creation myths and consequent religious texts from other societies and from other times, the rest is easy.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
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